| Bringing back Palpatine wasn’t as much of an eye roll moment as making Rey his granddaughter. You absolutely can’t have any sort of Star Wars franchise that doesn’t include the Jedi, without all the Force nonsense there’s not a lot that sets it apart |
Star Wars Episode IX: Rise of Skywalker • Page 55
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elstoof 28,128 posts
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Rogueywon 12,387 posts
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Registered 16 years ago@elstoof TIE Fighter begs to differ... -
BreadBinLidHero 10,804 posts
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Registered 12 years agoBringing Palpatine back would've been fine had they not done it because they (seemingly) didn't know WTF else to do. He defined the world of the other two trilogies, and it wouldn't be totally ridiculous for him to still be pulling some strings. It might have been predictable or hackneyed or whatever, but if this trilogy was all about ending the original saga, then why not? He's a top villain, and McDiarmid was always a highlight.
The real fuck-up IMO was not moving on from ROtJ, and merely recreating the Empire versus Rebels schtick from the original trilogy in TFA. Imagine a post-Empire galaxy with the Republic and Jedi rebuilding being challenged by a small baddie rebellion led by Palpatine or Maul (or Watto or Jarjar or a new baddie). The Jedi rebuilt by Luke and Leia might seem to have the upper hand, but their naivety means that defeating the baddie rebels isn't as easy as they thought, and hunting down these baddies challenges their idealism and holier-than-thou intentions for the post-Empire world, yadda yadda. You get your nostalgia kick within a new framework, and new (but not jarringly new) lessons for the characters to learn, and RotJ meant something.
I don't know, I'm not saying that I could've written a better trilogy. I just think they hamstrung it from the start, then totally fucked it with TLJ. TLJ might have done 'interesting' things with characters, but it was dull-as-fuck and pulled things apart without setting much up. The last film of 'the Skywalker Saga' - the culmination of everything - was always going to have to be grandiose and nostalgic. After TLJ, TRoS had to scrabble around for something to hang it all on.
Perhaps TFA and TLJ should've been conglomerated into the first film, with TRoS as the second and a more satisfying finale.
There's nothing wrong with doing a fanboy nostalgia-fest for three films before doing a French New-Wave Dogme 95 Star Wars for your next lot of films. I want to see interesting new Star Wars films, but perhaps the culmination of the original story isn't the place for them.
Obviously I have made a sum total of 0 films, so I'm probably talking bollocks. -
Nazo 1,954 posts
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Registered 12 years agoChiefGB wrote:
I disagree. It was an ok film in its own right but a terrible setup for a new trilogy. It just hit the reset button back to a New Hope and as a result framed expectations that everything would hark back to the OT. Rey couldn’t be just her own character because of course a new Jedi has to be related to someone somehow.
I thought tfa set things up ok.
Why the fuck did they need to make the end of the Skywalker saga anyway? As bad as the PT was at least it expanded the universe, these just fetishised the originals and added almost nothing except a bunch of crazy force powers. After 3 films we’re back where we were at the end of ROTJ. It was all so pointless. -
Malek86 12,331 posts
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Registered 14 years agoI'm not against the idea of setting up the Emperor as the mastermind for everything, per se. It's just that there was absolutely zero indication of this in the previous two movies.
As bad as the prequel trilogy was, it never really made me think that they were writing it as they went along. -
PazJohnMitch 17,276 posts
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Registered 14 years agoYou definitely can’t accuse the prequel trilogy of writing. -
Darth_Flibble 5,593 posts
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Registered 17 years agoThe english to chinese of the pirated film subtitles and back to english dub of the prequel trilogy is better than the actual films
https://youtu.be/H9VVkwRb_7M -
creepiest-lizard 2,978 posts
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Registered 8 years agoProbably makes more sense -
Rogueywon 12,387 posts
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Registered 16 years agoThe prequels clearly had an overarching storyline that had been planned in advance. There are very clear story threads that run through TPM, AotC and RotS.
The problem is that anything approaching relatable characters or believable dialogue was sacrificed in service to that storyline. Characters largely exist just as ciphers to move the plot forwards. Dialogue is a clumsy tool used to hammer home narrative bullet points. If anything, the prequels actually needed to be a little bit sloppier and messier.
The new trilogy, by contrast, has been all over the show. TFA and RoS are basically fun rides with entertaining characters but not much coherence. TLJ is more like the prequels - densely plotted and clunkily written - but it doesn't even have the prequels' virtue of fitting into a coherent overall plot. For my money, that renders it the weakest installment in the entire... erm... nonalogy? -
challenge_hanukkah 14,403 posts
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Registered 8 years agoSMELLY BOY -
Switch-v85 4,290 posts
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Registered 7 years agoWatched this the other night, enjoyed it and thought it had some great moments but couldn’t help but feel a little disappointed with it. It’s far too safe but that was to be expected after the reaction to to the last one.
I disagree with pretty much everything I’ve read in this thread about The Last Jedi, it’s the only one out of the new films that does anything remotely interesting. It’s a great movie. This new trilogy has disappointed because the films around it didn’t take enough risks. -
Malek86 12,331 posts
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Registered 14 years agoSwitch024 wrote:
I agree that it does a lot of new and interesting things, and i appreciate that it takes risks. I just wish they had built a better paced and more coherent movie around those elements.
I disagree with pretty much everything I’ve read in this thread about The Last Jedi, it’s the only one out of the new films that does anything remotely interesting. It’s a great movie. This new trilogy has disappointed because the films around it didn’t take enough risks.
Edited by Malek86 at 11:23:14 31-12-2019 -
cov 2,524 posts
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Registered 18 years agoennealogy -
The_Goon 1,457 posts
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Registered 8 years agoMalek86 wrote:
This. Deus ex machina for all intents and purposes.
I'm not against the idea of setting up the Emperor as the mastermind for everything, per se. It's just that there was absolutely zero indication of this in the previous two movies. -
Duffking 16,964 posts
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Registered 15 years agoSwitch024 wrote:
It does new things, but it also does the vast majority of them badly. It's also the only one with any broadly recognisable themes, but it's still buried under a first hour or so that filled with bad action scenes, bad dialogue, bizarre tonal shifts and some incredibly dodgy performances.
I disagree with pretty much everything I’ve read in this thread about The Last Jedi, it’s the only one out of the new films that does anything remotely interesting. It’s a great movie. This new trilogy has disappointed because the films around it didn’t take enough risks. -
docrob 1,795 posts
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Registered 13 years agoDuffking wrote:
Yes, this is the page I’m on. Half the characters spend half the film doing something that turns out to be completely pointless, just to give them something to do whilst the other half of the characters get on with the actual story.
Switch024 wrote:
It does new things, but it also does the vast majority of them badly. It's also the only one with any broadly recognisable themes, but it's still buried under a first hour or so that filled with bad action scenes, bad dialogue, bizarre tonal shifts and some incredibly dodgy performances.
I disagree with pretty much everything I’ve read in this thread about The Last Jedi, it’s the only one out of the new films that does anything remotely interesting. It’s a great movie. This new trilogy has disappointed because the films around it didn’t take enough risks.
The other thing (as I have posted previously) is that if they wanted to take the franchise in a fresh new direction, they should have done it with VII. Instead, they chose to make VII pure fan service. I was very happy with that personally, but it made the complete tonal shift to VIII even more horribly jarring. Although some people loved it, the reaction to VIII was more negative overall than for any previous SW film, which led to IX being ultra-safe. If they had changed things up with VII, there might have been less of a backlash (though it’s fair to say that if they had, it would probably have upset all the people who had waited 35 years to see these characters on the screen again).
Basically, if you make a new film featuring some of the best-loved characters in cinema history, people are going to be pissed off if you make them too different. I’m really hoping that they now try something radically different. -
Lukus 24,643 posts
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Registered 17 years agoThe_Goon wrote:
Isn't that Star Wars in a nutshell? See also Luke getting off with his sister.
Malek86 wrote:
This. Deus ex machina for all intents and purposes.
I'm not against the idea of setting up the Emperor as the mastermind for everything, per se. It's just that there was absolutely zero indication of this in the previous two movies. -
Technoishmatt 5,366 posts
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Registered 7 years agoActually, the Emperor being the big bad explains where Snoke came from, as he really sprung from nowhere. Snoke wasnt indicated previously.
Edited by Technoishmatt at 14:02:19 31-12-2019 -
anephric 5,274 posts
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Registered 14 years agoIt's not like they set the Emperor up much in ANH: Tarkin's the big bad in that and Vader is just his gopher. Palps gets all of one scene in Empire, it's only RotJ that establishes he's the big bad.
There's all sorts of inconsistencies, like how Palps makes a big deal out of Luke's lightsabre like he's not really familiar with them (OOOOH A JEDI'S WEAPON).
Almost like it was being made up as it went along. -
Darth_Flibble 5,593 posts
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Registered 17 years agoThe first order was not even set up very well in FA. The first order are just back (might as well call them the Empire) and all the governments are too weak or afraid. You thought they would of had a military force ready if the empire forces come back. Bad writers just ignore things or just make stuff up, I don't think Jar Jar Abrams knew that he was going bring back the Emperor at the start of the new trilogy. -
Saul_Iscariot 4,399 posts
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Registered 9 years agoThe_Goon wrote:
In TLJ, when Snoke levitates Rey, in the throne room, the Emperor’s theme plays. It is a subtle, nuanced hint at Palpatine. And I had to have it pointed out to me.
Malek86 wrote:
This. Deus ex machina for all intents and purposes.
I'm not against the idea of setting up the Emperor as the mastermind for everything, per se. It's just that there was absolutely zero indication of this in the previous two movies. -
captbirdseye 11,190 posts
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Registered 16 years agoAn interview came out a few days ago where Kathleen Kennedy always planned for the Emporer to come back.
If this was always planned then why the fuck was it handled so badly. I think with this and the Solo failure then her days are pretty much numbered. It will be interesting to see if they still go ahead with the new Star Wars film announcement next month. -
disusedgenius 10,677 posts
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Registered 14 years agoSaul_Iscariot wrote:
Apparently Rey's theme is also linked to Palp's as well. Which is why some people were calling it from back then.
In TLJ, when Snoke levitates Rey, in the throne room, the Emperor’s theme plays. It is a subtle, nuanced hint at Palpatine. And I had to have it pointed out to me. -
Saul_Iscariot 4,399 posts
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Registered 9 years ago@disusedgenius I never knew that. I read a few times that George Lucas had wanted the Star Wars films to be watchable, with no dialogue, just music, and still make sense. These subtle nods to characters in their themes musically are very indicative of that all being planned. -
disusedgenius 10,677 posts
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Registered 14 years agoThere's a very strong case for John Williams being the best storyteller in Star Wars, that's for sure. -
anephric 5,274 posts
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Registered 14 years agoYep, I watched ANH a few days ago and nearly all of the feelz come from the score, not the dialogue or acting, that's for sure. -
Rogueywon 12,387 posts
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Registered 16 years agoEarly preview screenings of ANH, before the John Williams score was added, were apparently a disaster. -
disusedgenius 10,677 posts
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Registered 14 years agoApparently even Mad Max: Fury Road had shaky previews before they got the soundtrack. -
disusedgenius wrote:
Coincidence. Not even the actor knew about returning. The Emperor was a solution to one of JJ Abrams own unsolvable mystery boxes decided upon before the last film because they had no big bad. Matt Smith was originally going to play a new villain but Abrams thought the familiarity would be a safer choice so chucked the Emperor and his fleet of Death Stars in.
Saul_Iscariot wrote:
Apparently Rey's theme is also linked to Palp's as well. Which is why some people were calling it from back then.
In TLJ, when Snoke levitates Rey, in the throne room, the Emperor’s theme plays. It is a subtle, nuanced hint at Palpatine. And I had to have it pointed out to me.
The plot is all total bollocks and doesn't merit any serious discussion, particularly as it undermines the whole narrative arc of the first 6. Either turn your brain off and grin inanely as it washes over you, or realise it's a shitshow and forget about it. -
Matt Smith is on record several times saying he wasn’t in the film. Not sure how you know better than the source what was planned? But, a lot of films revise their own history to make out like happy accidents were planned all along.
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