Following PlayStation 5 Page 8

  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 23 Apr 2019 19:05:35 6,533 posts
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    I'd be surprised if they used a hybrid. Those things can sometimes throw up complex issues. I'd be less surprised if they went the route of two different release consoles - a 500GB version for cheap and a more expensive 2TB version. Even with SSD prices down massively from a year ago, a 2TB SSD is still going to add a good chunk onto the sticker price of a new console.
  • Dirt3 23 Apr 2019 19:25:36 492 posts
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    They won't use a generic hybrid, they will write their own firmware if something doesn't exist already, which would also give them an excuse to capture upgrade revenue.

    I don't know what you mean by "complex issues" but that is probably firmware dependent. For example you could envisage a scenario where a entire single game is loaded into the SSD portion of the hybrid before startup. This is the simplest scenario, but would take a long time at the start to load in. It's hard to imagine "complex issues" with this sort of process. Then you can imagine more sophisticated schemes where it pages parts of a game into the disk. Which might work well for a linear progression game, but maybe less well for something like a racing game.

    I doubt whether they will have two separate drives, because that would be too expensive. One case, one drive electronics.

    And you will be able to replace the drive. But only with a "special" one !

    TBH if they do go for a hybrid, it will be a generic in service one, probably with a different firmware. That is the way to try to get the cost down. I see now you can get hybrids with 256gb of cache, my guess is 512gb would load in an entire next gen game, or at least a big chunk of it.

    If you think about it it has to be hybrid tech if they are talking SSD. Because there is no way you will be able to stream it fast enough. No way that SSD will provide enough storage at decent cost (at least by the date it will be released).
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 23 Apr 2019 19:38:17 6,533 posts
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    @Dirt3 They've majored on "SSD" in the marketing so far, not "hybrid". I think it's more likely that they'll go out with an inadequate level of storage space at launch (possibly with price-defined options) and then just hope that SSD prices continue to fall so that they can do a 4TB (or similar) edition in a couple of years.
  • Dirt3 23 Apr 2019 19:55:35 492 posts
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    That's an option I guess. It would make for a pretty poor user experience though because people would inevitably want to hook up their own non SSD storage (MAMR and HAMR should be well established by then) which would mean them constantly copying out of the non SSD storage into the SSD.

    If they integrated that process it would be much better. But of course do you spend time doing stuff like that when you could spend it on other design aspects. Are game loading times currently killing the experience ?

    I suppose the other issue is that SSD could be on the cusp of a big price reduction and maybe someone more in the know than me knows that. I guess you can look at the fab resources and how aggressive the current scaling is from a long way out and see where it is going. Plus someone with their purchasing power could probably say to a new fab we will take x% of your capacity up front. That's a great thing to have on a massive investment and would surely drive the cost down.
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 23 Apr 2019 20:27:19 6,533 posts
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    @Dirt3 I think SSDs have just had a big price reduction. I just checked Amazon and a Samsung 1TB will set you back just under £130. That has come down hugely. 18 months ago, the price was £100 north of there. As you say, Sony will have fairly impressive purchasing power and should be able to get better prices than the average Amazon shopper.

    The interesting thing with SSD storage-by-default is that I suspect it does mean that they're going to disallow running games from non-SSD user drives. After all, PS5 games will likely be optimised for SSD load/streaming speeds, so running from a mechanical drive may well throw up problems.

    Loading times can be an annoyance on consoles - particularly over the last couple of years, as games have consumed more storage space. I mostly game on PC these days, where I've been gaming from SSDs since 2014, but whenever I step over into console-land for anything vaguely AAA-ish, the load times are noticable. I suspect data-streaming may be a bigger concern than load times, though - running into frequent stutter in your AAA open-world game because a mechanical drive can't stream the assets fast enough isn't pleasant.
  • Fake_Blood 23 Apr 2019 20:28:04 9,730 posts
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    I can see them do a proprietary memory upgrade thing, remember the vita?
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 23 Apr 2019 20:31:19 6,533 posts
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    Fake_Blood wrote:
    I can see them do a proprietary memory upgrade thing, remember the vita?
    I remember the Vita.

    I suspect Sony also remembers it.

    They won't do that again in a hurry.
  • Fake_Blood 23 Apr 2019 20:35:44 9,730 posts
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    Vita didnít fail because of the expensive memory, itís just that they forgot to make good games for it.
  • Dirt3 23 Apr 2019 20:47:14 492 posts
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    Rogeywon that is interesting. I have not monitored SSD prices recently.

    One thing I was wondering about was whether or not next gen will provide a leap in the amount of storage per game necessary. That might be another way of looking at it. If this gen is already 4K capaable and the games are at say 100gb or so, will next gen games be of similar size, or should we expect them to get much much bigger ?

    I do think the price of ratio of storage of SSD to HDD will be at a low at the moment. HAMR will produce disks of around 10x the current capacity with what I guess will be a 2-3x increase in cost when it is released.
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 23 Apr 2019 20:52:49 6,533 posts
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    @Dirt3 I don't think anybody will be pushing assets beyond 4K on consoles, at least in the early part of the next cycle. 4k/60fps/ultra remains highly challenging, even on a top-end PC, and I'd be surprised if a mass-market console released in 2020 was a match for a top-end 2019 PC on performance. I think 4K will remain the target for most, possibly all of the next console cycle, barring some kind of mid-cycle hardware refresh like the Pro and X.

    As you say, with 4K assets on PC or via XB1X patches, current titles are topping out in the 100GB range, maybe a couple tipping towards the 120GB point. I don't think they'll grow much beyond this over the next cycle. But bear in mind that when the PS4 and XB1 launched, most games were in the 12-20GB range, with a couple maybe tipping as high as 40GB (constrained by the storage capacity of a BD). A 500GB hard drive was respectable enough for the early part of the PS4/XB1 cycle, but quickly started to look a bit too small. A 2TB drive will probably be in a similar position when the PS5 launches.
  • richarddavies 23 Apr 2019 21:04:46 6,832 posts
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    Fake_Blood wrote:
    Vita didnít fail because of the expensive memory, itís just that they forgot to make good games for it.
    Shut your whore mouth. I wuv my vita.
  • Syrette 24 Apr 2019 08:58:45 50,321 posts
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    Fake_Blood wrote:
    Vita didnít fail because of the expensive memory, itís just that they forgot to make good games for it.
    Bit harsh, the first few months were decent...

    Comfortably the most disappointing console I've ever bought, mind.
  • Rodderz 21 May 2019 09:46:40 3,956 posts
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    Whilst not hugely exciting (read all about it, ssd in "loads faster" shocker!), here's some footage someone captured at a Sony event, where they showed the PlayStation 5 ssd capabilities in terms of loading speeds and streaming speeds vs. a PS4 Pro:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/mochi_wsj/status/1130645990627631105

    Appears to be the Spiderman comparison Cerny showed off to select media recently.
  • DarmokJalad 21 May 2019 12:43:04 63,703 posts
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    Lol, are they really pushing 8k ready? Still need to get 4k right.
  • Armoured_Bear 21 May 2019 12:50:54 27,440 posts
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    DarmokJalad wrote:
    Lol, are they really pushing 8k ready? Still need to get 4k right.
    Just marketing bullshit.
  • dominalien 21 May 2019 13:10:49 9,274 posts
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    Yeah, I think weíre firmly in the land of diminishing returns now and this is just marketing crap. Though I do remember the 1080p menu on the PS3 helped me keep the air of superiority.
  • ozthegweat 23 May 2019 22:32:26 2,315 posts
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    Perhaps we'll finally get a 1080p60 Ultra mode.

    A boy can dream...
  • dsmx 23 May 2019 22:52:55 8,470 posts
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    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    DarmokJalad wrote:
    Lol, are they really pushing 8k ready? Still need to get 4k right.
    Just marketing bullshit.
    Or far more likely it just means they are supporting the version of HDMI that outputs at 8K.
  • Armoured_Bear 23 May 2019 23:50:44 27,440 posts
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    dsmx wrote:
    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    DarmokJalad wrote:
    Lol, are they really pushing 8k ready? Still need to get 4k right.
    Just marketing bullshit.
    Or far more likely it just means they are supporting the version of HDMI that outputs at 8K.
    Either way, there will be fuck all gaming or viewing at 8K on it.
    Marketing bullshit.
  • Your-Mother 24 May 2019 00:45:07 2,999 posts
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    Not sure how it can be marketing bullshit when that detail is from a leaked internal slide. The newest HDMI standards are pretty much marketed as 8K Ready by default anyway. Itís the equivalent of saying it supports ax wifi or 5g, basically saying no-oneís using it now but itís future proofed for the next several years of standards.
  • up_the_ante 24 May 2019 01:26:36 1,120 posts
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    What I don't understand is why everyone is freaking out about these faster load times? Are the general public not aware that SSDs are much faster than HDDs or something?
  • BigOrkWaaagh 24 May 2019 07:30:55 8,901 posts
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    up_the_ante wrote:
    What I don't understand is why everyone is freaking out about these faster load times? Are the general public not aware that SSDs are much faster than HDDs or something?
    The general public think the hard drive is the bit you plug your monitor and keyboard into.

    Also, we may get an 8K interface (fairly sure the one S does this with 4k?), and maybe the odd pac man style game in 8K, just so they can say they have 8K games, no way AAA stuff will be targeting it.

    Edited by BigOrkWaaagh at 07:36:55 24-05-2019
  • ozthegweat 24 May 2019 15:14:13 2,315 posts
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    up_the_ante wrote:
    What I don't understand is why everyone is freaking out about these faster load times? Are the general public not aware that SSDs are much faster than HDDs or something?
    I'd argue console players are less tech savvy, so they might not even know what an SSD is.

    Also, cross-platform titles on PC are hamstrung in some regards by what is possible on consoles. E.g. when fast-travelling with your character, instead of fading to black you could show an animation akin to what was shown in the Cerny presentation.

    So it is a mix of educating the filthy console peasants and showing the possibilites what big cross-platform titles could do in the future.
  • Fake_Blood 24 May 2019 16:05:44 9,730 posts
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    It opens up possibilities. If you can load data very fast you could make a game where every texture is unique and still very high res.
  • SennaCujo 24 May 2019 16:16:04 337 posts
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    Post deleted
  • senso-ji 24 May 2019 16:52:33 9,855 posts
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    So these ssds will mean disc based games' load speeds will now match cartridge based ones from the 80s and 90s?

    Edited by senso-ji at 16:53:14 24-05-2019
  • mothercruncher 27 May 2019 18:25:50 16,540 posts
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    This is a lot of PC acronym shit, but is this new acronym shit?
    More details on the GPU architecture:

    https://twistedvoxel.com/ps5-gpu-new-rdna-amd/
  • BigOrkWaaagh 27 May 2019 18:30:10 8,901 posts
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    What's NEW stand for??
  • Fake_Blood 8 Oct 2019 16:02:35 9,730 posts
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    Guess what, Playstation 5 has an official name now, it's Playstation 5.
  • Decks Best Forumite, 2016 8 Oct 2019 16:08:52 21,092 posts
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    Christmas next year then.
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