Jony Ive to leave Apple Page 2

  • JamboWayOh 29 Jun 2019 01:17:41 21,665 posts
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    thelzdking wrote:
    It's fair enough to have loyalty to a product you have found to be good-quality, but I'll never understand vociferous fanboyism for a bunch of suits who only want your money.
    BUT HE CHANGED THE WORLD.
  • Dirtbox 29 Jun 2019 01:57:35 91,595 posts
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    Carlo wrote:
    When I first heard how Apple/Ive basically duplicated the style of Braun I was a little skeptical, but I started looking at some of the examples and it was pretty compelling.

    I mean, look: https://theuijunkie.com/apple-braun-design/
    The apple watch took a bunch of cues from braun's digital watch too.
  • THFourteen 29 Jun 2019 05:27:19 53,839 posts
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    thelzdking wrote:
    It's fair enough to have loyalty to a product you have found to be good-quality, but I'll never understand vociferous fanboyism for a bunch of suits who only want your money.
    They don’t wear suits.
  • Dougs 29 Jun 2019 06:13:30 96,721 posts
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    thelzdking wrote:
    It's fair enough to have loyalty to a product you have found to be good-quality, but I'll never understand vociferous fanboyism for a bunch of suits who only want your money.
    Pretty much this for me. There's no doubt Apple's influence, including design, but they're just bits of electronics.
  • dominalien 29 Jun 2019 07:16:22 10,116 posts
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    The way the new Mac Pro looks, he was hopefully fired.
  • sport 29 Jun 2019 08:13:20 16,478 posts
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    erasr wrote:
    And he’s English.
    I'm detecting Fruit levels of euphoria.
  • superdelphinus 29 Jun 2019 09:22:42 10,475 posts
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    up_the_ante wrote:
    The iPhone 4 is still the best piece of design for any mobile phone IMO. Looked like a piece of art and was the perfect size and weight. Since then they have been rather samey.
    I agree, it was the right size too. Wasn’t that the first one to use that hardcore glass on the back?
  • You-can-call-me-kal 29 Jun 2019 10:24:31 21,390 posts
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    The new iPad pros (which have gone under the radar a bit as Apple’s only significant new bit of industrial design in a decade, and are fucking great) is a definite build on the iPhone 4/5 design.

    I get that Apple is just a brand and any kind of brand affinity/loyalty is just consumerism by another name. However, anyone that doesn’t recognise the impact that Apple have had not just on consumer electronics but on design aesthetics in every sector, retail experience, the way we engage with content, the way we communicate, the role of computers in our everyday lives, the way we interact with pretty much any electronic interface, and much more - is either naive or wilfully obtuse.

    Yes, they build on the ideas of others, like literally every other business ever, but they are the success they are because they are ridiculously fucking good at what they do, from business strategy right through to experience design. No other business is as capable, consistent and innovative end-to-end as they are, and any expert in business and/or branding will agree with this to the point of it being a laughable truism.
  • Carlo 29 Jun 2019 13:47:03 21,495 posts
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    Now Razer's laptops are definitely a facimile of Apple, and by extension Braun, particularly the silver (I. E. bare metal) models.

    If you want to buy a Mac laptop these days because you like the industrial design, you might as well get one of those.
  • Dirtbox 29 Jun 2019 18:42:34 91,595 posts
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    You-can-call-me-kal wrote:
    The new iPad pros (which have gone under the radar a bit as Apple’s only significant new bit of industrial design in a decade, and are fucking great) is a definite build on the iPhone 4/5 design.

    I get that Apple is just a brand and any kind of brand affinity/loyalty is just consumerism by another name. However, anyone that doesn’t recognise the impact that Apple have had not just on consumer electronics but on design aesthetics in every sector, retail experience, the way we engage with content, the way we communicate, the role of computers in our everyday lives

    Yes, they build on the ideas of others, like literally every other business ever, but they are the success they are because they are ridiculously fucking good at what they do, from business strategy right through to experience design. No other business is as capable, consistent and innovative end-to-end as they are, and any expert in business and/or branding will agree with this to the point of it being a laughable truism.
    Fuck me running. Hyperbole combined with masturbation from start to finish.
  • Phattso 29 Jun 2019 19:10:34 26,294 posts
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    That new iPad Pro with the second gen Pencil is hands down one of the finest bits of tech I’ve ever used. Eye watering price, phenomenal bit of kit.
  • Deleted user 29 June 2019 19:11:33
    What a thread. Awful.
  • thelzdking 29 Jun 2019 20:08:34 10,269 posts
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    THFourteen wrote:
    thelzdking wrote:
    It's fair enough to have loyalty to a product you have found to be good-quality, but I'll never understand vociferous fanboyism for a bunch of suits who only want your money.
    They don’t wear suits.
    In their hearts they do.
  • You-can-call-me-kal 29 Jun 2019 20:34:15 21,390 posts
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    Dirtbox wrote:
    You-can-call-me-kal wrote:
    The new iPad pros (which have gone under the radar a bit as Apple’s only significant new bit of industrial design in a decade, and are fucking great) is a definite build on the iPhone 4/5 design.

    I get that Apple is just a brand and any kind of brand affinity/loyalty is just consumerism by another name. However, anyone that doesn’t recognise the impact that Apple have had not just on consumer electronics but on design aesthetics in every sector, retail experience, the way we engage with content, the way we communicate, the role of computers in our everyday lives

    Yes, they build on the ideas of others, like literally every other business ever, but they are the success they are because they are ridiculously fucking good at what they do, from business strategy right through to experience design. No other business is as capable, consistent and innovative end-to-end as they are, and any expert in business and/or branding will agree with this to the point of it being a laughable truism.
    Fuck me running. Hyperbole combined with masturbation from start to finish.
    Hyperbole is intentional exaggeration for effect, for example, ‘I could eat a horse’. It’s a rhetoric device whereby you make statements you don’t expect to be taken literally.

    It’s not to be confused with exaggeration that is just complete ignorant nonsense, for example, “It's no secret that the reason they reached a trillion is thanks to their removing features and charging customers extra to return them in the form of dongles or wireless headphones“.
  • Khanivor 29 Jun 2019 20:48:30 44,689 posts
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    Apple have had a huge impact on consumer electronics and, because these things play such a significant role in our lives today, on modern society and culture. Ives has been a design titan and had a profound effect on how we interact with and use technology

    All of this is in the past tense. There’s been nothing in a great many years, in an industry where months of stagnation is significant.

    Apple’s market value of a trillion bucks has more to with rampant profiteering, worker exploitation, tax avoidance and selling services than recognition of the worth of the wonderful Apple aesthetic.
  • thelzdking 29 Jun 2019 21:00:22 10,269 posts
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    JamboWayOh wrote:
    thelzdking wrote:
    It's fair enough to have loyalty to a product you have found to be good-quality, but I'll never understand vociferous fanboyism for a bunch of suits who only want your money.
    BUT HE CHANGED THE WORLD.
    Life was nasty, brutish and short before the Ipod navigation wheel.
  • You-can-call-me-kal 29 Jun 2019 21:03:44 21,390 posts
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    Again, their impact goes way beyond their tech. They’re still the benchmark in high street retail that every other brand aspires to. Similarly their website is the benchmark that every brand aspires to. Their package design is copied by every premium brand. Their UX and UI is gold standard etc etc.

    I agree in terms of product design they’ve done nothing particularly of note for a while but that’s because they’ve been pivoting to becoming a service business. They have more damningly been slow off the pace with content provision while the likes of Netflix and Spotify got ahead of the game, and they’ve probably missed those boats now. Likewise IoT home stuff. Perhaps they have had their time in the sun because of that, although they’re making moves into other sectors like mobility and FS and I suspect have some surprises in store. And yes, they are highly unethical in some of their practises. I don’t agree that’s the reason for their huge success, and they’re not unusual practises amongst their competitors either, but yeah, it’s valid criticism.

    All I’m really saying is credit where it’s due. They are the brand that literally every other business in the world admires and tries to emulate. And that’s not hyperbole.

    Edited by You-can-call-me-kal at 21:04:48 29-06-2019
  • Not-a-reviewer 29 Jun 2019 21:05:51 6,642 posts
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    thelzdking wrote:
    JamboWayOh wrote:
    thelzdking wrote:
    It's fair enough to have loyalty to a product you have found to be good-quality, but I'll never understand vociferous fanboyism for a bunch of suits who only want your money.
    BUT HE CHANGED THE WORLD.
    Life was nasty, brutish and short before the Ipod navigation wheel.
    Still changed the world.
  • Not-a-reviewer 29 Jun 2019 21:08:30 6,642 posts
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    theone1 wrote:
    He designed the original iPod. That device alone changed the world. Whoever says Apple copies others is wrong. Apple were the first to design an iPod style device

    There were MP3 playing boxes before the ipod, they were actually smaller and slicker looking than the original ipod
    And hardly anyone cared, although I’d love to see those amazing designs.
  • Fake_Blood 29 Jun 2019 21:24:24 10,693 posts
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    Here you go
  • Tonka 29 Jun 2019 21:54:25 31,378 posts
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    You-can-call-me-kal wrote:
    Stagnant lol. They’re the most valuable brand in the world and the first and only trillion dollar business.
    Amazon hit a trillion shortly after. Microsoft is currently above one trillion whilst Apple isn't.

    Yes, Apple is a valuable brand, but the MBP and Trashcan fiasco pushed them into a corner where the iPhone was becoming ever more important. Gruber is pinning the blame on Jonny for that (might be paid spin)

    I'm their recent, and boring, pivot to services they've got less use for Jonny.
  • chopsen 29 Jun 2019 22:18:00 21,350 posts
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    Yeah, kal. Who doesn't have a trillion dollar company these days? I know I have.
  • fontgeeksogood 29 Jun 2019 22:33:03 11,269 posts
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    Fake_Blood wrote:
    Here you go
    The Zune was WAY after the ipod
  • Fake_Blood 29 Jun 2019 22:40:24 10,693 posts
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    Yeah I know, thought it was relevant in terms of people saying apple steals other companies designs.
  • chopsen 29 Jun 2019 22:47:52 21,350 posts
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    This is fun to read: someone tried to invent an MP3 player, music DRM and a digital distribution system in 1979:

    http://www.kanekramer.com/downloads/IXI-Report.pdf
  • Your-Mother 29 Jun 2019 22:52:09 5,442 posts
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    I used to be very anti-Apple, and while I am to some extent (I wouldn't pick an iPad or a Mac laptop, nor do I want to get invested in the Apple media ecosystem until Airplay is as common as Alexa or general casting, though they're definitely starting to be less militant in those areas), I've softened over the past few years, mostly because I somewhat begrudgingly switched to iPhone on my last upgrade mostly because of how good the Apple Watch has turned out to be as a fitness tracker.

    I've got to say the whole "it just works" slogan is really a truism. The phone just does its thing, Face ID works flawlessly, Apple Pay works flawlessly. Airpods and Watch pair instantly, can switch between devices with no hassle, and just do what I need them to do with virtually no bugs, glitches, slowdown or any kind of problems. I remember the faff to get my Gear Watch and Gear earbuds paired with my Galaxy phone, and the general unreliability of fingerprint/iris unlock...even the more esoteric things like enrolling my phone in intune for BYOD at work is so much easier.

    That's really what part of the overall design is. A lot of people look at it and say "lol braun ripoff" (which is true, but also generally meaningless given good design philosophy tends to be universal and even Ives has directly said he's a Dieter Rams acolyte), but it's function coupled with the form that equals the design. Not just minimalism and aluminium.

    And yes, this sounds like fanboy ejaculate, but meh.
  • DrStrangelove 29 Jun 2019 23:57:42 15,331 posts
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    I think Apple is ambivalent, there's a lot of triumph but also a lot of rubbish.

    The iPhone is the obvious elephant in the room, and I admire Steve Jobs and everyone else involved for what they did. They didn't take what was there and make it a little better, they rethought the whole thing entirely. Forget about everything that currently exists, imagine how it could be in an ideal world and try to do that. And that did change everything.

    The approach by some of the most prominent competitors is "well it works somehow, that's good enough". I'm not a fan of Steve Jobs as a person, but he was a visionary, and he had the means to make those visions reality. I admire that anal love to detail because it does make a difference.

    Most of all I admired their understanding of intuitive user interfaces. That's not only true for the iPhone, my Macbook Pro was a revelation too only because of that touchpad and its implementation. It was just worlds apart.

    But then, they also have a history of style over substance. The cube Mac, the dustbin Mac, and actually yes, the iPhone 4. That looked great but the antenna didn't work properly (product design fail) and a glass back cover is functionally rubbish. You may like the looks of it but functionally glass has only disadvantages compared to plastic. My appreciation of design ends where it impairs function.

    That Macbook I once loved, it taught me that aluminium is shit and that my next laptop will be plastic. Same for the iPad 3 I once had. It looks cool, but after some time with it I realised aluminium is just bad.

    I also liked the idea of "it just works", sadly Apple didn't just work. To copy anything on my iPad, even within the limits it allowed, I had to use the iTunes software for Windows. But that crashed everytime I connected the iPad, so the only way was to upload stuff to the Apple Cloud and download it from there onto the iPad, adding more hassle to the existing pain of Apple's closed ecosystem. Also, the iCloud software for Windows was slow as fuck.

    I had a Sony XPeria phone back then, and that worked a charm. No matter what I wanted to do with it when connecting it to my Windows PC, it, well... it just worked. No matter if I just wanted to copy files (which the iPad doesn't do anyway) or if I wanted to transfer songs or photos or whatever. Super easy, super quick. And if Sony's software is superior to yours, you done fucked up.
  • elstoof 30 Jun 2019 00:22:53 26,254 posts
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    I think Forstall’s departure had more of an impact on the company than Ive’s will at this stage
  • up_the_ante 30 Jun 2019 00:26:18 1,457 posts
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    chopsen wrote:
    This is fun to read: someone tried to invent an MP3 player, music DRM and a digital distribution system in 1979:

    http://www.kanekramer.com/downloads/IXI-Report.pdf
    I'd read somewhere else they'd got a patent in 1982, which I thought was amazing, but I didn't realise they'd come up with the concept as long ago as 1979. I just feel sorry for them not being able to afford the renewal fees when the patent expired however many years later. IXI are the worlds richest company in some parallel universe.
  • Deleted user 30 June 2019 00:36:44
    thelzdking wrote:
    JamboWayOh wrote:
    thelzdking wrote:
    It's fair enough to have loyalty to a product you have found to be good-quality, but I'll never understand vociferous fanboyism for a bunch of suits who only want your money.
    BUT HE CHANGED THE WORLD.
    Life was nasty, brutish and short before the Ipod navigation wheel.
    I think my minidisc had one. :)

    The most notable thing I noticed way back with the first ipod is the fact you couldn't easily replace the battery. Apple are often overlooked as massive practitioners of inbuilt obsolescence.
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