Following PS5 - 'leaked' design Page 10

  • Technoishmatt 20 Mar 2020 19:42:02 4,033 posts
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    Love me some good sound. I remember installing a Soundblaster AWE32. But not sure I can hear the difference with this stuff. I love my 5.1 system, but play with my phone headset most of the time. I just need to hear when the enemy is creeping up on me most of the time :)
  • Malek86 20 Mar 2020 20:00:23 10,025 posts
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    Technoishmatt wrote:
    Love me some good sound. I remember installing a Soundblaster AWE32.
    Did it also come with a new case to fit it?

    I'm still rocking a Soundblaster 16 in the DOS PC, good stuff. Funny how stereo sound tech hasn't really changed since the 90's. I bet that if I bought an old PCI Sound Blaster card, it would still work even on Windows 10.

    Edited by Malek86 at 20:00:51 20-03-2020
  • Deleted user 20 March 2020 20:18:07
    JamboWayOh wrote:
    AaronTurner wrote:
    You can get decent quality headphones for not too much money, 30-40 euros? .
    Err, no. Not really.
    Yeah you can, here you go https://www.amazon.co.uk/PreSonus-HD7-Semi-Closed-Studio-Headphones/dp/B004ACQMUQ/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=presonus+headphones&qid=1584735446&sr=8-1
  • MrAGSystems 20 Mar 2020 20:36:34 844 posts
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    Those are headphones within the price range, the thesis is you can get decent ones for that price.
  • Deleted user 20 March 2020 20:40:46
    They are decent. I never said you would get top of the line, or great. But you can certainly get decent headphones for that price.
  • JamboWayOh 20 Mar 2020 22:46:03 18,791 posts
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    With those prices you just get an overload of shit bass.
  • Ron_Justice 21 Mar 2020 06:27:32 3,197 posts
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    I suspect there's a point being missed here - one of the main concepts of Tempest is to do away with the need to have systems likes Dolby Atmos etc. and 'high end'. audio systems to achieve immersion. Tempest's potential is to deliver a soundscape unlike anything that's gone before - completely rewriting what consumers can expect from sound design. Where Dolby Atmos is capable of 32 (the now, relatively low, actual figure is unimportant) sound channels and requires expensive specialist equipment to deliver those channels. Tempest is capable of delivering orders of magnitude more sophistication through 100`s of 'channels' and those channels can be delivered through ANY stereo speaker system.

    Now, while l accept that an Audiophile headset or pair of high end speakers will deliver a 'technically better' audio experience than some £10 Sony ear buds, what you're going to hear in the 'soundscape' will be identical through both options. It's a fundamental paradigm shift away from the need to invest in 5.1/7.1 systems to achieve 'immersion'. That's the point.

    Edited by Ron_Justice at 06:29:18 21-03-2020
  • Deleted user 21 March 2020 06:48:52
    JamboWayOh wrote:
    With those prices you just get an overload of shit bass.
    Get some Shure ones then, they typically have a tighter bass and flatter response. Really, there are decent options for the price range. If you want the highest fidelity then you have to pay, but that's obvious.
  • IronGiant 21 Mar 2020 08:58:41 6,065 posts
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    For me, sound quality is just as important as the amount of pixels on the screen.. developers do seem genuinely excited about what they can achieve with Tempest. Iíve got a decent 5.1 setup and headphones so bring it on ;)
  • Phattso 21 Mar 2020 09:11:12 25,214 posts
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    Given that there are down firing tv speakers, behind the screen tv speakers, edge based tv speakers and all sorts... the notion that Tempest is going to just work seems naive to me. Time will tell.
  • JamboWayOh 21 Mar 2020 09:27:37 18,791 posts
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    Ron_Justice wrote:
    I suspect there's a point being missed here - one of the main concepts of Tempest is to do away with the need to have systems likes Dolby Atmos etc. and 'high end'. audio systems to achieve immersion. Tempest's potential is to deliver a soundscape unlike anything that's gone before - completely rewriting what consumers can expect from sound design. Where Dolby Atmos is capable of 32 (the now, relatively low, actual figure is unimportant) sound channels and requires expensive specialist equipment to deliver those channels. Tempest is capable of delivering orders of magnitude more sophistication through 100`s of 'channels' and those channels can be delivered through ANY stereo speaker system.

    Now, while l accept that an Audiophile headset or pair of high end speakers will deliver a 'technically better' audio experience than some £10 Sony ear buds, what you're going to hear in the 'soundscape' will be identical through both options. It's a fundamental paradigm shift away from the need to invest in 5.1/7.1 systems to achieve 'immersion'. That's the point.
    I felt like I read a PR piece there. Bravo.
  • Derblington 21 Mar 2020 09:38:45 32,923 posts
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    @JamboWayOh
    I donít really get what angle youíre coming from? You seem positive itís all just nonsense/wonít work, seemingly based on a misunderstanding of the initial announcement (in that you thought it would require high-end headphones), and when itís explained you dismiss it.

    What it is that you donít like about the pitch?
  • JamboWayOh 21 Mar 2020 09:44:59 18,791 posts
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    @Derblington

    I've never said I'm positive it's nonsense at all. I'm healthily sceptical you might say, mainly from loads of hardware features for new consoles that were deemed 'game changing' but were hardly used by devs. If it's brilliant and it genuinely changes gameplay then awesome I get to experience it. Why is it such a big deal that I'm a bit sceptical, is that not allowed?

    Edited by JamboWayOh at 09:45:33 21-03-2020
  • Malek86 21 Mar 2020 09:53:03 10,025 posts
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    Honestly, this idea that we are gonna get awesome audio quality from earbuds sounds a bit unconvincing to me. Maybe I'm just used to earbuds being utter crap and I don't see how things could be any different. We'll see though - if it's true what they said, we won't have to buy anything in particular to try for ourselves, meaning it's the perfect new tech to showcase.

    Then again, maybe that's not really what he said? It sounded about audio fidelity, not quality.

    Edited by Malek86 at 09:57:22 21-03-2020
  • Ron_Justice 21 Mar 2020 10:11:28 3,197 posts
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    It's not the 'quality' of the sound that's going to improve for low end headphones/speakers. Their performance is still going to be dictated by their hardware make up.

    This is a software solution. As l understated it (please correct me if I'm wrong) Tempest is using a piece of silicon that's the same size / power as a PS4 CPU, purely to handle 3D audio. It's basically a sound engine / hardware solution that is as complex as the 3D geometry in a current gen title. It then takes that data - distance from character, occlusion, materials etc. - and spits it out to a Stereo set up. If a system can handle Stereo, it can deal with Tempests output.
  • Malek86 21 Mar 2020 10:19:38 10,025 posts
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    @Ron_Justice ok, that sounds more believable. You mean it's a rethinking of the way audio is implemented, not the quality of said audio.

    So, if I get this correctly - say I'm walking down a hallway and an enemy runs toward me. In theory, with this new system, I should hear his footsteps gradually become louder in a believable manner, and presumably the echo in the hallway would also be believable depending on where he is and where I am (I wonder if they are using some sort of ray-tracing).

    That sounds pretty good, and could indeed be useful even on low end setups, although I imagine the nuance would be lost on something like TV speakers or earbuds. It doesn't quite sound transformative - but I don't know enough about audio development to say how it compares to the way companies do positional audio right now. Does anyone know?

    Edited by Malek86 at 10:22:18 21-03-2020
  • Deleted user 21 March 2020 11:27:41
    It's the presentation of the sound rather than the quality. There is an old demo of binaural recording that may give you an idea here: https://youtu.be/IUDTlvagjJA

    This is what they are trying to reproduce.

    Edited by AaronTurner at 11:29:04 21-03-2020
  • Ron_Justice 21 Mar 2020 12:01:42 3,197 posts
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    Malek86 wrote:
    @Ron_Justice ok, that sounds more believable. You mean it's a rethinking of the way audio is implemented, not the quality of said audio.

    So, if I get this correctly - say I'm walking down a hallway and an enemy runs toward me. In theory, with this new system, I should hear his footsteps gradually become louder in a believable manner, and presumably the echo in the hallway would also be believable depending on where he is and where I am (I wonder if they are using some sort of ray-tracing).

    That sounds pretty good, and could indeed be useful even on low end setups, although I imagine the nuance would be lost on something like TV speakers or earbuds. It doesn't quite sound transformative - but I don't know enough about audio development to say how it compares to the way companies do positional audio right now. Does anyone know?
    Your corridor analogue is correct, yes, as far as l can make out and yes, the new Raytrace capabilities of the PS5 are fundamental to the way this works. The thing is, at a superficial level, that stuff is already possible - footsteps getting louder-, the difference with Tempest is that the sheer number of sounds that will be present will be, potentially, 10+ fold that of something like Dolby Atmos. As in, you'll be able to hear that 3 players are around you in a house, you'll be able to judge how far away they are, their direction of travel, how many rooms are between you and them, perhaps even if they're wearing armour etc. I suspect it'll be one of those things where you experience it and have a light bulb moment of 'oohhhhhh, now l see'.

    Edited by Ron_Justice at 12:04:29 21-03-2020
  • Malek86 21 Mar 2020 12:06:47 10,025 posts
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    AaronTurner wrote:
    It's the presentation of the sound rather than the quality. There is an old demo of binaural recording that may give you an idea here: https://youtu.be/IUDTlvagjJA

    This is what they are trying to reproduce.
    That was impressive stuff. Two questions though:

    1) It sounds like this is already existing technology, so what exactly is new in Tempest? Is it just a matter of ease of development, or number of audio sources?

    2) Maybe it's just me, but... it looks to me like it's easier for the brain to pretend that the sound is coming from behind, rather than ahead? It might be just an impression, but in similar demos I've heard, when the sound was supposed to be upfront, it just sounded like it was coming from above instead.
  • Deleted user 21 March 2020 12:08:44
    That's actually recorded, not simulated. I kind of get the feeling this is just the beginning of a long road that Sony are going to go down. Cerny already spoke about the difficulties blending between source locations and how unique all our heads are. I imagine they come up against barriers they never expected after every breakthrough.
  • mothercruncher 21 Mar 2020 13:12:56 17,621 posts
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    @Malek86
    Itís all explained very well in the presentation, worth a listen. Itís a dedicated chip in charge of this and could calculate hundreds of audio sources if needed. Atmos is in the 10ís in comparison.
    Everyoneís ability to hear this stuff is different though, perhaps hence your thoughts about front/rear placement. Cerny mentioned theyíre planning a few ways to test and map different hearing ďstylesĒ in order to cater to this, something thatíll get refined over time Iím sure. Interpreted is as some sort of audio test you might take.
  • mothercruncher 21 Mar 2020 13:15:29 17,621 posts
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    Whether studios will be willing to allocate a bigger slice of the budget to time spent developing audio though, dunno.
  • Derblington 21 Mar 2020 13:36:43 32,923 posts
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    Thatís on Sony to make it simple to work with, which will part of their plan because they want people to use. Same with the compression/loading systems theyíre building into the machine. They need to keep dev overheads low.
  • Ron_Justice 26 Mar 2020 05:16:58 3,197 posts
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    Did I imagine it, or did DF suggest they had a 2nd PS5 video on the horizon, following their reveal analysis? RL said something along the lines of 'l spoke with Mark Cerney and gleaned more info. than was in the presser, so we'll put that in a video along with some more PS5 thoughts'
  • davidfowles 26 Mar 2020 13:23:41 105 posts
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    They did two videos on the same day.
  • Ron_Justice 26 Mar 2020 13:48:11 3,197 posts
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    @davidfowles



    Am I missing something?
  • davidfowles 26 Mar 2020 20:51:45 105 posts
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    Looking at their channel, theyíve removed the second video. From memory it was just the two guys talking.
  • Carlo 1 Apr 2020 19:44:41 21,204 posts
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    https://www.t3.com/news/ps5-price-leak-is-insanely-low-should-xbox-series-x-be-worried

    "Leaked" price...

    The store is reportedly pricing the console at CA$559.99 on the Play N Trade Facebook page. Converted, that is around £320 or $395 USD.
  • richarddavies 1 Apr 2020 19:48:21 7,597 posts
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    I wouldnt really trust any random site like that but I had 399 in my head as a reasonable price. Think they might struggle a bit if it's much higher.
  • Technoishmatt 1 Apr 2020 20:38:10 4,033 posts
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    Same price as ps4 pro at launch? Seems highly unlikely.
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