Mechwarrior 5 Page 2

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  • rice_sandwich 12 Dec 2019 09:34:10 6,671 posts
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    @Rogueywon

    Fair enough. I still have to play Battletech so by the time I get through it I'm sure the price will be lower.
  • TechnoHippy 12 Dec 2019 11:59:50 18,381 posts
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    I tried Battletech when it first came out (I even had one of the bomber jackets from the KIckstarter), but got stuck on one of the early missions. Started a new campaign yesterday and hopefully will do better this time.
  • Rogueywon 12 Dec 2019 12:21:17 10,761 posts
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    With a few people picking up or going back to BattleTech, I'll stick some starter-tips over in that game's thread.
  • Rogueywon 12 Dec 2019 22:22:49 10,761 posts
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    Playing this right now to distract myself from the insane stresses of... other things. Have just noticed that in certain mission types it just dumps waves of enemies in as out-of-nowhere spawns around you, like Dragon Age 2.

    That's not fantastic.

    This is mostly just making me want to play BattleTech now.
  • Rogueywon 16 Dec 2019 09:31:36 10,761 posts
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    Right, so, played a bunch more over the weekend. It's a real mixed bag of a game. If you're thinking of buying it, my honest advice would be "wait for a sale and some patches". It's quite rough at the moment. Now Harebrained's BattleTech was a bit rough when it first launched and was later patched into polished perfection, but my sense is that MW5 has a lot further to go now than BattleTech had at launch. Its flaws aren't technical - it actually runs pretty well and isn't particularly buggy - but are around game-design and balancing.

    The mechs themselves feel great. They feel properly big and stompy and the weapons have heft. Being able to kill vehicles by stamping on them is a nice touch and it was good to see it make the leap across from BattleTech (though mech-to-mech melee attacks don't). When you and your lance are going toe-to-toe with an equivalently sized enemy force, weaving in and out of cover and trying to blow limbs off each other, it feels great. Problem is, the game only very rarely plays out like that.

    Instead, almost all missions go for the "throw loads of weak enemies at the player" mindset. Vehicles - tanks, VTOLs and missile-launchers - are by far the most common enemy and most missions through them at you by the bucketful. When you do encounter enemy mechs, they are almost invariably much smaller than yours. I'm currently fielding a lance of three heavies and a medium, but most of the time, when I'm not fighting vehicles, I'm fighting Locusts, Commandos, Spiders and other light mechs. Occasionally, the game might throw a couple of mediums at me at the end of a mission, but like-for-like battles that put you on an even footing are rare.

    Instead, the game goes for grinding attrition. The enemies you're fighting might be weak, but their numbers more than compensate. An average mission right now will see me coming out with around 30 kills. What's worse, the way enemies are spawned into missions is truly awful. MW5 goes for the Dragon Age 2 model of wave-based fights. So as you finish off one wave of enemies, another wave will pop into being out of thin air. On defensive and hold-the-point missions, the spawns are generally far enough from you that it's more annoying than genuinely immersion-breaking, but in offensive and assassination missions, the spawns can quite often be right on top of you. So you might be duelling another mech and trying to keep the damaged side of your own mech turned away from it... all well and good. Then the game will spawn half a dozen tanks all around you and any thought of tactics and trying to shield your damaged areas goes out the window. It turns the game into a simple shooting gallery with a heavy RNG component.

    In addition to which, AI is pretty awful. It's most obvious on "defend the base" missions, where your own lance-mates will happily stomp right through the base you're supposed to be defending, flatting buildings and shooting key installations that had the cheek to get between them and their target. Success on defend missions generally comes down to keeping your own allies from destroying what you're trying to defend. You can give orders to lance-mates, but these seem to do little or nothing. Trying to get a wounded ally to pull back before they can be destroyed is virtually impossible. The enemy is no brighter - in offensive missions, they will happily shoot and stomp the shit out of your targets for you.

    And then there's the overall campaign balance. The economy at the moment is incredibly harsh. Unless you get very lucky, most missions give only a paltry reward after your damage is accounted for and it's not uncommon to come out with less cash than you went in with. You can keep repair costs down by limiting your own damage, but given the aforementioned ally AI problems, there's basically no way to prevent your wingmen from racking up the repair bills. The economy's balance honestly feels more like some pay-to-win mobile title at times (though to be clear, there is no pay-to-win in the game). They'd have done well to take the slightly more generous approach to repair costs and salvage that Hairbrained's BattleTech took.

    Are these issues fixable? Maybe. For the most part, they're not technical problems but baked into the game design, so I wouldn't hold out hope for a quick fix.
  • neems 16 Dec 2019 12:09:18 5,185 posts
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    @Rogueywon

    You should send that to the developers, you never know.

    I wonder if it's the sort of thing a talented modder could fix?
  • Rogueywon 16 Dec 2019 15:29:57 10,761 posts
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    @neems Tempting, but I'm seeing similar comments in professional reviews and in the closest thing they have to a forum. Also, with this not being on Steam, the lack of a forum is really disconcerting.

    I think fixing this requires more than a couple of technical patches. These are fairly deep design and balance issues which don't lend themselves to a quick fix.
  • Rogueywon 16 Dec 2019 21:47:14 10,761 posts
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    The intensely frustrating thing with this is that just once in a while, on the story missions, you see what it could have been.

    I just did a fantastic mission. I was in a Jagermech, accompanied by an Archer, a Quickdraw and a Hunchback. So two long-range support mechs and two brawlers. I never got on with the Jagermech in BattleTech, but my god piloting one feels glorious... those big old autocannons hanging at the top of your field of view and the recoil when you unleash them.

    Mission opens with an objective to drive enemies away from a friendly base. Enemies are mostly VTOLs and the Jagermech is an absolute god when it comes to anti-air. After that's done, move onto an objective to destroy three fuel depots. Enemies are properly spaced and deployed - a mixture of heavy tanks and medium mechs. No random spawns all around me. So I use command orders to have the Quickdraw and Hunchback take point, while I sit back with the Archer pouring in fire. We advance through the various objectives, stomping all in our path.

    Then an enemy dropship lands with a lance of 4 mixed light/medium mechs. Ammo's getting low by this point (the Jagermech is a beast for it), so I'm mostly holding back and using the lasers. The last enemy blows off an arm, so I lose half of my big guns. Then... a second lance... two lights, a medium and... oh shit... a Warhammer. A big, bruising 70 ton heavy.

    What follows is a desperate fight, ducking between ruined buildings and having my lance-mates pick off the smaller enemies while I slowly wear down the Warhammer. Eventually, with my own mech showing red across the board, the enemy dies and the mission is over.

    Absolute classic Mechwarrior stuff.

    Then onto the next mission, with loads of shit infinite waves spawning.
  • Rogueywon 24 Dec 2019 13:24:54 10,761 posts
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    So I got further through this at the weekend. Sorry to say, but the verdict has to be "don't buy this in its present state at the present price".

    Technically it's fine, if deeply unambitious. But I've not had any serious bugs or glitches. But the procedurally generated missions are crap, the in-game economy is broken and the AI goes beyond "bad" and into "outright destructive to the game". Some of the scripted main-campaign missions are good, but there aren't enough of them and you have to grind through huge levels of padding between them.

    Also... that voice acting. This game's set in the 31st century in a universe with fusion power and faster-than-light travel, but they still haven't invented a cure for Brummie accents? Really?
  • WrongShui 24 Dec 2019 19:50:40 6,844 posts
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    I am actually enjoying this, stomping around in an Awesome with triple PPCs, although i'd prefer the missions to have fewer larger enemies instead of tons of light mechs and tanks to one shot. It does feel very bare bones though, hopefully they flesh out a career mode with DLC like Harebrained Schemes did with Battletech.
  • Rogueywon 22 Jan 2020 23:12:32 10,761 posts
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    This has had a few minor patches. Unfortunately, with this being EGS only, it has neither a proper news page nor a forum (the developer's own site is shit at both).

    That said, it's a bit better now. I just played a few missions and the most glaring balance problems are gone. The wave-based fights are still there, but enemies seem to spawn at a more sensible distance now. I've not seen any pop out of thin air. LRMs actually do more damage than a wet fart. The economy is slightly less broken. A better variety of enemy mechs shows up in missions, rather than just Locusts and Cicadas.

    It hasn't transformed the game and some of the big flaws are still there, but it's still better than it was at launch.
  • TechnoHippy 23 Jan 2020 08:59:23 18,381 posts
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    Thanks for the update - I would like to give this a go, but happy to wait until they've sorted the issues out.
  • sherpa1984 26 Sep 2020 17:50:19 865 posts
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    I gave this a go using GamePass after getting a Mech itch from my BattleTech campaign...

    My days this is ropy, isn't it? From the visuals that look 20 years old to the voice overs (Ryana has an Irish accent in the training mission and a Northern accent in the 1st mission).

    Don't think I can persevere with this one!
  • Rogueywon 26 Sep 2020 21:16:56 10,761 posts
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    @sherpa1984 Yeah, it's ropey as hell in terms of production values. The voice work is absolute trash-tier stuff and the story is stupid, which is disappointing, given the 2018 turn based strategy BattleTech has a decent story in the same universe.

    I've still put way more hours into it than I thought I would, though. The actual moment-to-monent mech combat can be pretty great and the randomly generated missions, while still only so-so, are better than they were at launch.

    The game really comes to life if you get a chance to play it co-op. That opens the door to actual tactics, which the AI squadmates are just too dumb to let you employ.
  • Rogueywon 3 Jan 2021 21:18:26 10,761 posts
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    Completely missed the news that this is coming to Xbox consoles in the Spring, at the same time as the expansion and Steam release of the PC version. Wonder why no Playstation version?

    Sounds like the career/campaign have been completely reworked, so it may well be worth another look at that point.
  • DasBooter 3 Jan 2021 21:34:12 521 posts
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    Nice. I still dip into this and HBS game now and then for a blast.
  • mrharvest 5 Jan 2021 10:42:42 5,662 posts
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    Reading this thread made me want to play HBS Battletech again. Maybe I'll finally do a full Roguetech run. Just gotta figure out what settings to use to speed it up a bit.
  • WrongShui 5 Jan 2021 15:42:15 6,844 posts
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    Rogueywon wrote:Wonder why no Playstation version?
    If I remember my convoluted Battletech IP rights, games rights are owned by Microsoft and Piranha Games licences it from them.
  • Rogueywon 5 Jan 2021 15:46:08 10,761 posts
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    @WrongShui Ah, that might make sense. Certainly, I seem to remember MS spending a fair bit to secure exclusivity for MechAssault back in the days of the OG Xbox.

    Though that just has me wondering why the HBS Battletech game never came to Xbox. No reason at all why it wouldn't be playable on a console controller.

    And yeah, the Battletech IP rights situation is comically complicated. I'm still vaguely surprised they managed to get the "lost" mechs back for MW5 (and for the Battletech Heavy Metal expansion). Feels odd to be running around in a VF1 Valkyrie... sorry... Phoenix Hawk.
  • KD 5 Jan 2021 17:46:52 3,203 posts
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    This is a special game on the triple screen setup, only a gamepass curiosity that I have no idea how to play with my hotas properly, just skirmish and die then turn off again. Glad it exists.
  • mrharvest 10 Jan 2021 11:14:46 5,662 posts
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    I started playing this after all. I died like 6 times in the first mission with the Javelin. Just tiny shits chipping away at the paper thin default armour.

    But a few missions with the Centurion and it's actually quite enjoyable. Weird choice with all the weeny VTOLs and tanks, it feels like trying to swat flies most of the time. And I think I'm doing something wrong in the battles vs mechs - I end up just backing away in a circle and shoot at their legs but somehow that works? Dunno, kinda weird.
  • THFourteen 10 Jan 2021 12:07:21 53,867 posts
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    Every time i see this bumped i reinstall it. Never got past the first training mission due to reasons.
    https://www.nexusmods.com/mechwarrior5mercenaries/mods/161

    This mod looks pretty cool might try it out.
  • mrharvest 10 Jan 2021 12:14:26 5,662 posts
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    Looks good, yeah.

    Also browsing through the mods I saw "No More Tears - VTOL Remover" :D

    Edit: I'm trying with a couple of mods. Went with MercTech instead of MW5 Reloaded.

    Edit2: Oh dear, I had a real "Am I the bad guy here?" moment. I took a house Davion contract to deter the insurrectionists. And the mission was to blow up a housing complex. Of course I did what I was paid to do but damn. :(

    Edited by mrharvest at 01:23:39 11-01-2021
  • THFourteen 14 Jan 2021 09:36:33 53,867 posts
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    Is anyone playing this on an ultrawide? I don't know how best to describe it, but it looks like dog.

    Everything seems fuzzy as if its not really running at native resolution. Have tried it on another PC with a 4k monitor and everything is pin sharp (obviously 4k vs ultrawide 1440p but still)
  • mrharvest 14 Jan 2021 09:53:22 5,662 posts
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    I'm just regular 16:10 so can't help you there.

    I've been playing a fair bit more. I'm not sure how much of it is the MercTech mod but I'm having a blast! I'm using the improved lance mate AI mod and they mostly behave okay. Got one friendly stuck in landscape until I looped back and manually told him where to go. And it's supposed to be possible to change roles on the mechs but I haven't been able to do that so everything is stuck with the default roles.
  • Rogueywon 14 Jan 2021 10:06:41 10,761 posts
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    I'll go back to this once the expansion arrives in Spring. Will take the call at that point on what mods I need. I'd like to think they'd manage to make some improvements in the friendly AI in the game itself, obviating the need for that particular mod.
  • One_Vurfed_Gwrx 14 Jan 2021 12:10:02 4,173 posts
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    THFourteen wrote:
    Is anyone playing this on an ultrawide? I don't know how best to describe it, but it looks like dog.

    Everything seems fuzzy as if its not really running at native resolution. Have tried it on another PC with a 4k monitor and everything is pin sharp (obviously 4k vs ultrawide 1440p but still)
    I could install this on GP and check but my UW is only a 1080p one so not sure it will answer your question... It is a game I have thought about checking out while my Gamepass is active to see if I like it. I think the last mech game I played was Steel Battalion...
  • mrharvest 14 Jan 2021 13:35:43 5,662 posts
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    If anyone wants to do some co-op shenanigans I'm up for it.
  • THFourteen 16 Jan 2021 18:29:48 53,867 posts
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    Sorted it out - basically had to find the ini file and manually edit the resolution for some reason it wasn’t 3440x1440.

    Looks much nicer now!

    And finally finished the first training mission too. And first contract. Go me.

    Edited by THFourteen at 18:29:56 16-01-2021
  • mrharvest 17 Jan 2021 00:37:02 5,662 posts
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    Good job!

    I'm on merc level 11. The Merctech mod seems to make stuff a lot more interesting. My two favourite mechs are a Quickdraw with engine upgrade to make it run at 85kph and a Warhammer that goes at 75kph. Stocked to the brim with small lasers I just get close and kneecap whatever I'm targeting. Me likey
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