Following Coronavirus Page 874

  • You-can-call-me-kal 28 Oct 2020 18:43:14 21,390 posts
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    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    Iím maybe being dumb as usual but wonít kids still have almost all of what they love about Xmas this year, Santa still exists (elves and stuff as well), there is still the anticipation of Xmas, advent calendars, Xmas trees, presents in the morning etc?
    What will be missing apart from more families spending Xmas dinner at home rather than going round to gran and grandadís when theyíd often rather beat aging at home and playing with their new toys anyway?
    For some family is quite an important part of Christmas, and perhaps the only time they actually all get together.

    Like, if the notions of family and childhood and all that arenít a big deal for people, and I agree (again) it doesnít override the greater good, but you can still have some level of empathy for those for which it is actually quite important.
  • Armoured_Bear 28 Oct 2020 18:46:36 29,302 posts
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    You-can-call-me-kal wrote:
    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    Iím maybe being dumb as usual but wonít kids still have almost all of what they love about Xmas this year, Santa still exists (elves and stuff as well), there is still the anticipation of Xmas, advent calendars, Xmas trees, presents in the morning etc?
    What will be missing apart from more families spending Xmas dinner at home rather than going round to gran and grandadís when theyíd often rather beat aging at home and playing with their new toys anyway?
    For some family is quite an important part of Christmas, and perhaps the only time they actually all get together.

    Like, if the notions of family and childhood and all that arenít a big deal for people, and I agree (again) it doesnít override the greater good, but you can still have some level of empathy for those for which it is actually quite important.
    I totally understand that, it applies to me, I was referring more to the ďpoor children, they have no Xmas nowĒ stuff that seems to be going round.
  • Technoishmatt 28 Oct 2020 18:49:26 4,751 posts
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    Letting families do Christmas together doesn't undo all of the lockdowns. Not how it works.
  • Psychotext 28 Oct 2020 18:49:43 68,274 posts
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    I've got empathy for plenty of people. I've got a ton more empathy for those unable to say goodbye to loved ones, or go to funerals, be present at births, or those trapped alone in care homes and suchlike. Even with that said, there comes a point when it's time to accept reality and do what needs to be done.

    The problem is, our leadership cares more about votes than what's best for the country, so the people who are loudly complaining about this shit right now (especially Tory back benchers) are having a direct impact on how many lives will be lost.

    Technoishmatt wrote:
    Letting families do Christmas together doesn't undo all of the lockdowns. Not how it works.
    Cool... so maybe lets have a fucking lockdown then? Rather than this clearly ineffective tier bollocks. Lock everyone down for three weeks before Christmas, kill the virus spread dead in its tracks... and then little Timmy can have his magical time without fear of everyone spreading the virus when they get together.

    Edited by Psychotext at 18:51:38 28-10-2020
  • Dougs 28 Oct 2020 19:01:13 96,721 posts
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    I've just had to tell my quite frail, 82 year old mum, what a spectacularly bad idea it would be for my niece (and her two kids) to stay with her for Christmas. My niece lives in Marseilles and is coming back for Christmas regardless of what Macron says later apparently. We've only been going in her house in the last month and even then are always distanced. My mum veers from being terrified to being blasť about it. Mad.

    Edit: my niece usually stays with her dad so no idea what's changed now.

    Edited by Dougs at 19:03:40 28-10-2020
  • chopsen 28 Oct 2020 19:04:29 21,350 posts
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    @Psychotext

    Not really sure what you're getting at.

    Nobody is really defending the current government in how they're dealing with this that I can see.
  • Psychotext 28 Oct 2020 19:18:14 68,274 posts
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    I wasn't aware that I had said anyone was. I'm just generally angry at the complete lack of leadership, and also those that seem willing to fuck off the rules because they're inconvenient.

    I guess we wont have to worry much longer though... France and Germany are doing something, so cunt and co will have cover to copy them soon enough (and too late as usual). I guess if we don't, then we'll have our hands forced anyway by the hospitals being filled to capacity.
  • chopsen 28 Oct 2020 19:32:17 21,350 posts
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    The hospitals will be at capacity. They run at nearly that anyway at the best of times, and that's why we have the Nightingales. Likely we'll be using them this time round.

    Things being "inconvenient" is all relative. We could get the army barricade ourselves indoors for a year and that will reduce cases. But failing outright authoritarianism putting too onerous restrictions in place will just lead to people ignoring them. There's no point putting rules in place that people are just going to ignore.

    The government could help themselves by not completely reinventing the wheel every 3 minutes. Consistency would help a lot with compliance.

    I still think a consistent risk based approach to lockdown (or "shielding") (with general infection precautions and distancing measures for everybody else in public) is the way forward. Everybody tells me this is impossible for some reason. Yet that is exactly what Sweden are doing and are seeing a fall in deaths (with rising cases).

    Edited by chopsen at 19:32:40 28-10-2020
  • Dougs 28 Oct 2020 20:39:10 96,721 posts
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    That relies on people actually complying though. I agree, Hands, Face, Space should allow most of us to function as normal, even if we may not be able to hug granny. But we could still see them, and that's better than nothing. From what I've seen though, that's not happening and why we are where we are.
  • chopsen 28 Oct 2020 20:47:27 21,350 posts
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    I saw some research that put compliance with the rules for the people *with symptoms* at 18%. And the top reason for non-concordance was not understanding the rules (though you'd think you'd make the effort).
  • SolidSCB 28 Oct 2020 20:56:02 13,968 posts
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    The letter of the law is also extremely manipulated towards keeping businesses and workforces going at any cost.

    I had to argue to fuck the other day that I didn't feel comfortable that a colleague I had spent time around was awaiting a test result and I still had to come in and potentially spread it further. "Were you within 2 metres for more than 15 minutes at a time" well technically speaking NO, but I spent more than enough time around him cumulatively in the same airspace for that not to make a world of difference, haven't we seen enough to know we should probably err on the side of caution with it?

    Nah, we need you in, no guidelines are being broken. Ace!
  • Psychotext 28 Oct 2020 21:14:36 68,274 posts
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    That study on infection in trains should make you very, very wary about spending a long time inside with someone that might have it.

    What a bunch of cunts.
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 28 Oct 2020 21:44:24 15,395 posts
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    chopsen wrote:
    I saw some research that put compliance with the rules for the people *with symptoms* at 18%. And the top reason for non-concordance was not understanding the rules (though you'd think you'd make the effort).
    So many people fretting over the letter of the law and what loopholes they can instead of the spirit of the guidance being to avoid as much contact as manageable or stay inside if youre sick
  • One_Vurfed_Gwrx 28 Oct 2020 21:49:23 4,121 posts
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    We pretty much decided in July or August that we would be skipping Xmas with the grandparents (kid's grandparents that is) regardless of the government policy due to not seeing anything other than the continuing lack of rules, clarity of rules , enforcement of rules and exemptions from rules from our 'wonderful' government.

    It was more tradition that we went than hugely important but our son refuses to go anyway and is annoyed enough at the lack of masks etc in classrooms and being forced into school. He wants to be extra safe and gets frustrated enough with all of the people he sees paying little attention to the rules. I can empathise with how meeting the family is more important to other families than ours especially when there is almoat zero rule enforcement anyway.

    In regards to chopsen's comments about outright authoritarianism I think this country could do with a few months of that, just not from our feckless politicians... I miss living overseas in countries that are currently doing a much better job of things.
  • Dgzter 28 Oct 2020 22:43:00 3,434 posts
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    Apparently this is the Daily Mailís front page for tomorrow in response to the announcements from both Germany and France re: lockdown: https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1321579392989016069?s=21

    That ... that canít be a real quote from the Pret boss, can it?

    Edited by Dgzter at 22:43:24 28-10-2020
  • arty 28 Oct 2020 22:45:53 776 posts
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    Strange that they haven't worked out that the sooner we get rid of it, the sooner they can resume business as usual.
  • Psychotext 28 Oct 2020 22:53:17 68,274 posts
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    I genuinely wonder what they'd be saying if we were losing thousands a week. I guess nothing as long as Pret, Wetherspoons and the landlords were getting paid?

    Johnson's gloomy advisers have actually come up a little low on their death predictions, so perhaps it might be advisable to pay attention and do something different?
  • Xerx3s 28 Oct 2020 23:04:27 23,965 posts
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    Dgzter wrote:
    Apparently this is the Daily Mailís front page for tomorrow in response to the announcements from both Germany and France re: lockdown: https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1321579392989016069?s=21

    That ... that canít be a real quote from the Pret boss, can it?
    Wow, that's some depressing new speak right there.
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 28 Oct 2020 23:08:39 15,395 posts
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    Psychotext wrote:
    I genuinely wonder what they'd be saying if we were losing thousands a week. I guess nothing as long as Pret, Wetherspoons and the landlords were getting paid?

    Johnson's gloomy advisers have actually come up a little low on their death predictions, so perhaps it might be advisable to pay attention and do something different?
    Considering theyíve recruited people who have expressed eugenic tendencies Iím not sure Iíd hold out much hope of Cummings and the other advisers having the nations best interests at heart
  • JamboWayOh 28 Oct 2020 23:10:21 21,665 posts
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    Dgzter wrote:
    Apparently this is the Daily Mailís front page for tomorrow in response to the announcements from both Germany and France re: lockdown: https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1321579392989016069?s=21

    That ... that canít be a real quote from the Pret boss, can it?
    The unfortunate side effect of seeing that tweet is the other tweets that are recommended with it, it's like a who's who of utter cunts.
  • Xerx3s 28 Oct 2020 23:12:40 23,965 posts
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    chopsen wrote:
    I saw some research that put compliance with the rules for the people *with symptoms* at 18%. And the top reason for non-concordance was not understanding the rules (though you'd think you'd make the effort).
    Seeing how people have behaved during the outbreak has made me consider whether rats got the blame unfairly during medieval plague outbreaks.

    Edited by Xerx3s at 23:14:17 28-10-2020
  • Decks 28 Oct 2020 23:13:28 27,688 posts
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    To be honest I was more concerned when the right wing rags seemed genuinely worried about people dying in the first wave. Watching them turn to BUT WHAT ABOUT ME over the past few months is mildly comforting.
  • Xerx3s 28 Oct 2020 23:29:39 23,965 posts
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    Technoishmatt wrote:
    Letting families do Christmas together doesn't undo all of the lockdowns. Not how it works.
    That's exactly how it can work. Students coming to mom and pops after mingling with 100s of other students, gramps too, throw in the children in primary and secondary school, and the adults from working from all over. Hugging, kisses, sitting on laps and next to each other, eating close together. Right at the beginning of peak flue season.

    This is currently one of the active super spreader scenario's in preparation.
  • Psychotext 28 Oct 2020 23:39:29 68,274 posts
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    Xerx3s wrote:
    peak flue season
    Santa joke high five!
  • Dougs 28 Oct 2020 23:50:05 96,721 posts
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    Dgzter wrote:
    Apparently this is the Daily Mailís front page for tomorrow in response to the announcements from both Germany and France re: lockdown: https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1321579392989016069?s=21

    That ... that canít be a real quote from the Pret boss, can it?
    And 'gloomy experts'. Jesus fucking Christ
  • Rodney 29 Oct 2020 06:22:19 4,751 posts
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    I was talking to my mum who is, sadly, becoming increasingly gammony.

    Any way I asked her if the UK government's inconsistent and unclear advice has contributed to the lack of compliance.

    She laughed and said the government advice has been very clear and it's only the biased BBC picking holes in anything the Government says that has caused confusion.

    I'm not in the UK so I don't know how the BBC has covered it but do her comments reflect reality?

    In my experience the BBC has strong establishment and false balance biases, and is terrified of ever correcting any false statements made by government - so I was a bit surprised by her take on it.
  • RGeefe 29 Oct 2020 06:40:43 1,458 posts
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    @Rodney I'd say she's wrong on this one. They do have false balance but they've hardly been knives out for Johnson and co.

    Anyone who thinks the BBC has an anti-government agenda is usually the same type of person who questions the licence fee but still watches the six o clock news every night, rather than just going elsewhere.
  • Rodney 29 Oct 2020 07:12:01 4,751 posts
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    That's what I assumed. I know the BBC was criticised a lot for not disputing factually wrong Brexit talking points, so it didn't seem right to me but I wasn't really in a position to disagree.

    I just recommended she watch Channel 4 News because I think it has pretty good coverage. That's what I watch each morning to keep up on UK news at least.
  • richardiox 29 Oct 2020 07:44:00 9,176 posts
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    Holy moly, this week's Imperial College survey estimates that in Yorkshire and the Humber 1 in 37 people currently have Covid. Most of the region is in Tier 2. That's a fucking unreal statistic if accurate.
  • Jono62 29 Oct 2020 07:44:25 26,002 posts
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    Xerx3s wrote:
    Dgzter wrote:
    Apparently this is the Daily Mailís front page for tomorrow in response to the announcements from both Germany and France re: lockdown: https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1321579392989016069?s=21

    That ... that canít be a real quote from the Pret boss, can it?
    Wow, that's some depressing new speak right there.
    This is what he said in that rag:

    https://i.imgur.com/mCy2bya.jpg
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