Coronavirus Page 1134

  • bzzct 22 Feb 2021 17:15:02 2,224 posts
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    richardiox wrote:
    General_Martok wrote:
    Psychotext wrote:

    General_Martok wrote:
    Unless I'm blind today is 10,600, the 15th of Feb was 14,296 ...
    You're blind. I don't even see 14,296 anywhere in the dataset.

    Edit - Did you look at by specimen date for that? You're comparing two different sets of data.
    I'm looking at Daily reported cases. The 15th of Feb was 14,296, today the 22nd of Feb shows 10,641.

    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/cases
    I'm baffled how you're getting this wrong?! The data is presented in such a clear and simple format it should be impossible to misinterprete it.

    I've actually tried to recreate your error and I can't without switching between two totally different datasets (cases by specimen date and cases by date announced)
    Nah it's formatted badly - that "People who tested positive" number at the very top is the "by date reported" number (which it doesn't specify), and immediately below it is a load of data that is "by specimen date".

    So if you're looking at the "by specimen date" graph/data, there's a little number just above it like a heading that says "people who tested positive" but which is actually from a different data set.

    Edited by bzzct at 17:43:27 22-02-2021
  • richardiox 22 Feb 2021 17:15:41 9,519 posts
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    @bzzct

    Ecosse is a master of leaping on a general point, misrepresenting you by amplifying it to be something you never said to try and make you look bad. He did it to me yesterday by saying I would prefer my parents to die than to not see their grandchildren.

    Edited by richardiox at 17:15:51 22-02-2021
  • ghearoid 22 Feb 2021 17:16:13 3,705 posts
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    MrWorf wrote:
    X201 wrote:
    MrWorf wrote:
    8 weeks until I can book a decent haircut, nice. These lockdown trims are getting worse instead of better... I cut my hair so badly last time that I ended up just wearing a hat.
    Shave it all off, it will grow back in 8 weeks
    I'm so bad with clippers I don't even trust myself to shave my head, patchy af.
    I've given up and gone for a seventies shag. I like it, it's kinda sexy. ;)
  • challenge_hanukkah 22 Feb 2021 17:18:48 13,765 posts
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    ghearoid wrote:
    MrWorf wrote:
    X201 wrote:
    MrWorf wrote:
    8 weeks until I can book a decent haircut, nice. These lockdown trims are getting worse instead of better... I cut my hair so badly last time that I ended up just wearing a hat.
    Shave it all off, it will grow back in 8 weeks
    I'm so bad with clippers I don't even trust myself to shave my head, patchy af.
    I've given up and gone for a seventies shag. I like it, it's kinda sexy. ;)
    I imagine a 70s shag to be pretty hairy as well as warty.
  • Gibroon 22 Feb 2021 17:20:35 2,462 posts
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    Starmer agreeing with Johnson's measured easing of lock down? Has the world gone truly mad. Letting all pupils and teachers going back at once and also telling everyone no social restrictions by mid June is clearly bonkers, as much as I would love it to be so.

    Case numbers are still way too high, vaccine or not.
  • General_Martok 22 Feb 2021 17:20:39 1,862 posts
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    bzzct wrote:
    richardiox wrote:
    General_Martok wrote:
    Psychotext wrote:

    General_Martok wrote:
    Unless I'm blind today is 10,600, the 15th of Feb was 14,296 ...
    You're blind. I don't even see 14,296 anywhere in the dataset.

    Edit - Did you look at by specimen date for that? You're comparing two different sets of data.
    I'm looking at Daily reported cases. The 15th of Feb was 14,296, today the 22nd of Feb shows 10,641.

    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/cases
    I'm baffled how you're getting this wrong?! The data is presented in such a clear and simple format it should be impossible to misinterprete it.

    I've actually tried to recreate your error and I can't without switching between two totally different datasets (cases by specimen date and cases by date announced)
    Nah it's formatted badly - that "People who tested positive" number at the very top is the "by date reported number" (which it doesn't specify), and immediately below it is a load of data that is "by specimen date".

    So if you're looking at the "by specimen date" graph/data, there's a little number just above it like a heading that says "people who tested positive" but which is actually from a different data set.
    It's slightly worrying that messing around with numbers is a key part of my job and I didn't notice the different sets :)
  • Psychotext 22 Feb 2021 17:38:07 69,730 posts
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    This'll be, uhh, fun for the schools.

    Secondary schools should offer pupils testing at an on-site ATS from 8 March. Testing and return of pupils can be phased during the first week to manage the number of pupils passing through the test site at any one time. You should offer 3 tests, 3 to 5 days apart.

    You have the flexibility to consider how best to deliver testing on a phased basis from 8 March, depending on your circumstances and local arrangements, but you should prioritise vulnerable children and children of critical workers, and year groups 10 to 13.

    Pupils should return to face-to-face education following their first negative test result. Pupils not undergoing testing should attend school in line with your phased return arrangements. Schools will have discretion on how to test students over that week as they return to the classroom.
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/963541/Schools_coronavirus_operational_guidance.pdf
  • bzzct 22 Feb 2021 17:42:38 2,224 posts
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    @Psychotext It's going to take more than two weeks to build an on-site ATS. I guess the jacks are to make it easier to get underneath their noses



    Edited by bzzct at 17:47:24 22-02-2021
  • chopsen 22 Feb 2021 17:47:08 21,639 posts
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    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    chopsen wrote:
    "long covid" should absolutely not be a factor it deciding this.

    Nothing is known about it, while we know quite a lot of the health impacts of unemployment, social isolation on one hand and the acute phase of COVID-19 on the other.
    My mate who's had chest pain, heart palpitations and exhaustion for 10 months and no knowledge of whether it's permanent or not would be disappointed to know that it doesn't matter much because not enough is known about it.
    Oh fuck off.

    So we make widespread decisions about public health interventions on basis of single anecdotes?

    The pandemic generally, if you've got covid or not, has been a significant trigger for many mental health condition especially anxiety and depression. Catching COVID can be a terrifying experience. The lack of control and uncertainty along with the uprooting of entire lives are going to have a major impact.

    The non-pharmacology interventions also have consequences that can be harmful for mental health. Social isolation, financial uncertainty or hardship are also massive triggers.

    Palpitations, fatigue and chest pain are common somatic manifestations of mental distress, especially anxiety disorders. If you know a good, reliable way to work out how many of these are related directly to exposure to SARS-CoV-2 and how many are related to lived experience of going through a pandemic and all that involves, I'm all ears because you could get that published. However, in the absence of that information, the idea that locking down longer makes "Long COVID" better *or* worse is unknown.

    We do know however that lock-down drives down cases, and vaccinating the at risk we know reduces the risk of death and need for hospitalization.

    We work with what we know.

    (and to avoid the follow-up: no I'm not saying people who are experiencing long COVID aren't experiencing something real. Also, if you want to go "it's all in your head." Well yes. It is. All symptoms are subjective and therefore are by definition are in your head. That pain you get from breaking a bone? In your head).

    Edited by chopsen at 17:50:15 22-02-2021
  • SolidSCB 22 Feb 2021 18:27:00 14,913 posts
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    Already seeing a lot of excitement and acting as if the dates are totally set in stone. Can easily see another Christmas type situation coming of this at this particular moment in time.
  • sorry 22 Feb 2021 18:29:32 20 posts
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    richardiox wrote:
    @General_Martok

    10,600 positive cases announced today, 9,700 last Monday

    That link shows today's figures only.
    There were around 190,000 extra tests carried out yesterday, compared to last Sunday.

    401,000 vs 590,000

    The more you test, the more cases you get.

    The positivity % is actually down.

    Cases shouldn’t be driving factor from now though. Hospital admissions and deaths are headline stats really now.
  • Not-a-reviewer 22 Feb 2021 18:44:37 7,080 posts
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    From a quick search of their document it states work from home where possible even at stage 4 when everything is open so there’s some reduction in commuting traffic (tube etc) at least.
  • Dougs 22 Feb 2021 19:00:48 98,009 posts
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    Ultimately, it doesn't matter if Covid caused physical symptoms (or mental for that matter). The treatment is still going to be the same. My wife now has asthma we think as a result of Covid inarch last year. It didn't kick in until the cold weather, bar a few wobbles last spring. But it doesn't matter what caused it, she's being treated for it and we have to manage that as best as we can.
  • Psychotext 22 Feb 2021 19:13:40 69,730 posts
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    sorry wrote:
    The more you test, the more cases you get.
    Whilst this is true, it's only truly relevant if we know what's driving the increase in testing (and in this case worth noting that the testing totals have been down all week).

    If it's the government mass testing to find variant spread, then it's encouraging. Less so if more people are going for tests if they're feeling sick / have come into contact with infected and are doing it as a precaution.

    Dougs wrote:
    Ultimately, it doesn't matter if Covid caused physical symptoms (or mental for that matter). The treatment is still going to be the same. My wife now has asthma we think as a result of Covid inarch last year. It didn't kick in until the cold weather, bar a few wobbles last spring. But it doesn't matter what caused it, she's being treated for it and we have to manage that as best as we can.
    My lung damage / arrhythmia definitely wasn't mental. Thankfully after 9+ months I (think / hope / pray) finally seem to be past it.

    Edited by Psychotext at 19:18:37 22-02-2021
  • Nitrous 22 Feb 2021 19:16:58 2,212 posts
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    Sounds like I'll be back at work once public building can reopen on the 12th April. That'll be a strange feeling.
  • Dougs 22 Feb 2021 19:21:41 98,009 posts
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    @Psychotext I think you misunderstood me - I meant that if someone is struggling with mental health issues as a result of Covid (directly maybe through increased anxiety for example) or indirectly through impact of lockdown etc, you still treat the symptoms. How or why isn't relevant to getting treatment.
  • Psychotext 22 Feb 2021 19:27:18 69,730 posts
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    I didn't think otherwise. Was just relating to your wife's asthma.

    There are some tests being developed for the lung / breathing side of things, for what it's worth. Largely just for peace of mind right now though as the treatments will take longer to come about.
  • Technoishmatt 22 Feb 2021 19:38:56 4,943 posts
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    The latest sage minutes have a section on long covid - basically it is likely a variety of syndromes etc. Seemed like overall long covid numbers and period were not that bad (but of course sucks to the individual).
  • drhickman1983 22 Feb 2021 19:39:25 7,373 posts
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    No real difference to me, until I can meet people I like indoors or stay at my folks house (so the 17th March). Cant really care about anything until then.
  • Armoured_Bear 22 Feb 2021 20:05:42 29,798 posts
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    chopsen wrote: the idea that locking down longer makes "Long COVID" better *or* worse is unknown.
    Clearly I'm a simpleton but locking down longer = less cases = less covid and FWIW my anecdote had the symptoms for quite some time before it being diagnosed as Covid as her initial infection symptoms were very mild so she had no idea that's what it was.
  • General_Martok 22 Feb 2021 20:08:21 1,862 posts
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    drhickman1983 wrote:
    No real difference to me, until I can meet people I like indoors or stay at my folks house (so the 17th March). Cant really care about anything until then.
    17th May

    /pedant
  • Armoured_Bear 22 Feb 2021 20:08:59 29,798 posts
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    richardiox wrote:
    @bzzct

    Ecosse is a master of leaping on a general point, misrepresenting you by amplifying it to be something you never said to try and make you look bad. He did it to me yesterday by saying I would prefer my parents to die than to not see their grandchildren.
    I'm not a master yet but I am pretty good. BTW I asked if you were close to it, didn't "say" anything. (╯3╰;)
  • richardiox 22 Feb 2021 20:12:16 9,519 posts
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    General_Martok wrote:
    drhickman1983 wrote:
    No real difference to me, until I can meet people I like indoors or stay at my folks house (so the 17th March). Cant really care about anything until then.
    17th May

    /pedant
    It's so depressingly far away. Totally expecting to have my mum sobbing on the phone later about it.
  • Stuz359 22 Feb 2021 20:19:16 389 posts
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    Is it possible the governments 'roadmap' is actually sensible? Last summer and towards the autumn (September) we tended to open everything all at once. This time we seem to be turning on the taps one at a time and seeing the result of that opening up.

    Kind of like trying to find a leak in a plumbing system or finding an electrical fault. You don't turn everything on at once to try and find it, because you won't know what is causing the problem.

    Shit metaphors seem to be catching.
  • Psychotext 22 Feb 2021 20:24:57 69,730 posts
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    Assuming they're actually willing to change their tune if the shit hits the fan, yes.
  • robc84 22 Feb 2021 20:27:57 15,072 posts
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    Had a bit of a row with my sister today. She was complaining that ‘normal life’ is so far away and that they’ll probably ‘find a reason’ to not open things up like they did last year. I politely pointed out that reason was hospitals overwhelmed and and over a thousand people a day dying. She gave me the ‘existing isn’t living’ line which really pissed me off. I’m sure all those dead people wouldn’t have minded existing a little longer so they could enjoy time with their families in the summer.

    Context - they have consistently broken the rules throughout, seen parents of both sides as well as friends. If they had made the sacrifices I’d have sympathy, but they’ve been living close to normal lives while everyone else makes sacrifices. Then have the audacity to complain that things aren’t opening up on their timescale.

    Rant over.
  • RGeefe 22 Feb 2021 20:41:46 1,700 posts
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    @robc84 Fair enough. As noted - I am planning to see my dad in April and probably stay over but he lives 5 hours away and is being deployed overseas shortly after and I likely won't see him until Christmas.

    We are all at the end of our tether now and finding where our own "breaking points" are. This whole year, perhaps the next few years, will no doubt cause rows and differences between people based on Covid, Brexit, etc etc.

    At the end of the day - focus on yourself and what you do. Are you doing things that are broadly safe and you can sleep at night? Perhaps best not to talk to your sister for a while or keep it civil. At the end of the day, I don't have siblings and I have no understanding how those relationships work but it's probably worth considering how much you're willing to let an argument like this escalate?
  • SolidSCB 22 Feb 2021 20:46:28 14,913 posts
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    Psychotext wrote:
    Assuming they're actually willing to change their tune if the shit hits the fan, yes.
    and herein lies the issue. They have an abysmal track record of course correcting within an appropriate timeframe. So even if things aren't looking as rosy as they should be by April 12th, I have very little doubt things will start to reopen anyway and they will twiddle their thumbs just long enough for the damage to be done.
  • Your-Mother 22 Feb 2021 20:53:05 6,571 posts
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    Aside from masks life has pretty much gone back to normal here over the past several weeks. Dine in open in restaurants, any health orders or mandates are lifted to advisory only, a lot of works moving back to in office. So far it hasn’t caused any spikes, and our vaccination rates are surprisingly high given we’ve had the highest percentage of vaccine hesitancy in the country historically.
  • robc84 22 Feb 2021 20:53:30 15,072 posts
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    @RGeefe

    No judgement to anyone on here, just a general rant about a specific situation. For those who have genuinely been in lockdown and follow the rules it’s tough. I just find it hard to have any sympathy for those who have been doing what they want the whole time then complain about the length of lockdown.
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