Following Doom Eternal Page 19

  • minky-kong 23 Sep 2020 12:10:35 14,648 posts
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    The whole game feels very designed by committee. Too many ideas thrown at it, and the bad ones not removed.
  • Duffking 23 Sep 2020 12:35:02 16,684 posts
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    It feels better once you have every weapon available to you, but until you have literally everything unlocked the game just feels annoyingly restrictive. And yeah, too much systemic bloat that adds a bunch of complexity but little depth. The blood punch mechanic is particularly lame, especially as it means doing a melee attack otherwise literally does 0 damage.
  • quadfather 23 Sep 2020 12:37:01 37,418 posts
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    I'd totally forgotten I had this. I got as far as the mancubus, got fucked off with the stupid swapping / going through the motions to get ammo all the time / fucking about with swapping the grenades and turned it off months ago!
  • wuntyate 23 Sep 2020 12:52:16 15,827 posts
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    I only properly enjoyed it after finishing it and being able to go through all the levels with cheats on.

    The game overall was just too damn difficult for me. Really struggled in places and only had it on normal. I'm okay with complex systems and extreme difficulty but that coupled with the breakneck pace and - frankly - shitty control method (awkward grenade switching for example) meant that my brain overheated very quickly.

    Edited by wuntyate at 13:02:00 23-09-2020
  • Rogueywon 23 Sep 2020 13:00:08 10,023 posts
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    I liked this, but not as much as Doom 2016. I'd absolutely agree there were too many interlocking systems. I particularly disliked the whole ammo-regain mechanic. It felt like I could never truly let rip with a particular gun, as I always needed to be planning my next ammo-restock (and those were annoyingly frequent). The shallow ammo reserves also took away any sense of needing to manage your ammo levels from one encounter to the next.

    If they do another game, they'd do well to pare things back to the essentials more, lose or downplay the chainsaw-ammo thing and lose the Blood Punch entirely. They could also stand to go lighter on the lore, or if they do go there, at least don't frontload all the dullest bits of lore up-front.
  • Duffking 23 Sep 2020 14:11:17 16,684 posts
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    I didn't mind the chainsaw mechanic so much but I didn't like that it meant the demotion of a bunch of enemy types to "endless respawning trash that exists only to chainsaw".

    It was really annoying in a later fight in the game where I basically ran out of ammo and I had to keep waiting for trash to spawn. Glory kills for health get annoying when you have to keep moving as well and deliberately do just enough damage not to kill them.

    The bigger issue for me playing on UV difficulty was the presumably unintended inversion of the gameplay loop. Doom 2016 was cool because you were basically hunting the demons, and the push forward nature of the glory kills contributed to this. But in Eternal, I felt the majority of every fight was me running away from enemies in giant circles in the arena while firing backwards wherever possible.
  • quadfather 23 Sep 2020 14:29:27 37,418 posts
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    Yes, exactly that from the last 2 posts - that's how I felt too
  • Rogueywon 21 Oct 2020 20:31:59 10,023 posts
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    Anybody played the new DLC yet? I have it downloaded, but unlikely to sit down with it properly until Saturday.
  • Bichii 21 Oct 2020 20:58:48 3,795 posts
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    Hopefully in the new dlc it doesn't stop the game every time you face a new enemy type!
  • BigOrkWaaagh 21 Oct 2020 21:29:43 9,874 posts
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    @Rogueywon I haven't played it yet but I have it downloaded, looking forward to giving it a bash. Am coming to the end of the game on Nightmare. I don't know why I thought that would be a good idea.
  • Rogueywon 23 Oct 2020 22:07:12 10,023 posts
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    Played through the first level of the DLC. They might as well just have called this "Hope you like Doom Eternal", because it is absolutely, 100% more of the same from the main game. Same strengths, same flaws and just more of everything. Difficulty-wise, it picks up right from where the main game ended, with absolutely no gentle introduction. If you've not played for a while, expect to struggle until you remember how all the tools, weapons and systems fit together.

    The first level is absolutely huge - it took me almost two hours on "Hurt Me Plenty" difficulty. Combat is constant and intense, with many, many large arena fights. Twice I thought the level was over, only for it to stretch out another area before me. Only seen one new enemy so far (a rather boring turret) and the archive-thingy implies there are only a couple more. But you get to see lots and lots of the end-game enemies from the main campaign - this spams around Cyberdemons and Arch-Villes with merry abandon.

    The visual design of the first level is nice, though. Feels a lot more Doom-y than many of the levels in the main campaign.
  • BigOrkWaaagh 23 Oct 2020 23:14:07 9,874 posts
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    I just beat the main game on Nightmare :D
    Will definitely do the DLC on HMP...

    Edited by BigOrkWaaagh at 23:14:54 23-10-2020
  • Rogueywon 23 Oct 2020 23:42:09 10,023 posts
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    Awwww... they patched out DooG Eternal. :(
  • TechnoHippy 24 Oct 2020 09:01:16 18,010 posts
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    Picked up the expansion, but I'm not feeling it. Those bloody disappearing turrets suck the joy out of combat :-(
  • Rogueywon 24 Oct 2020 09:06:36 10,023 posts
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    @TechnoHippy They're not great, are they? A couple of shots from the Ballista deals with them, though, and they only appear in a minority of the fights.

    I think for me, the main problem so far (and apparently there are only three levels, though they're all huge) is that some of the fights go on for so long that it starts to feel like an endurance-test. I didn't get that in the base game.
  • TechnoHippy 24 Oct 2020 12:33:02 18,010 posts
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    It does feel like a case of endurance rather than playing.
  • Rogueywon 24 Oct 2020 16:54:40 10,023 posts
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    Done. Posted thoughts in the Recently Completed Games thread. I wasn't massively impressed.
  • Bichii 24 Oct 2020 17:18:55 3,795 posts
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    @Rogueywon read your review. So all the new enemies are like that enemy in the main game everyone hates? Totally ruin the flow.
  • Rogueywon 24 Oct 2020 17:25:23 10,023 posts
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    Bichii wrote:
    @Rogueywon read your review. So all the new enemies are like that enemy in the main game everyone hates? Totally ruin the flow.
    Yes, exactly. I'd even say one of them is worse, as it only has tiny, occasional windows when it isn't invulnerable.
  • BigOrkWaaagh 24 Oct 2020 17:27:43 9,874 posts
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    I know the Marauder is a bit of a PITA, but I didn't find him that hard to deal with really. The only stupid one is when you first meet him because it's so enclosed. Aside from that it was just run away, dodge those twisty red blasts, eyes go green, super shotgun, super shotgun, repeat x3/4.
  • Darth_Flibble 24 Oct 2020 18:07:22 4,596 posts
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    Marauder is hard until you work out he does this axe swing at certain distance then super shotgun as does this turning axe swing
  • Rogueywon 24 Oct 2020 18:07:54 10,023 posts
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    The Marauder's not all that bad. There are a lot of them in the expansion and I didn't struggle with them too much (there's even a point where you fight two at once). The new enemies are all annoying, though. Descriptions below, behind the spoiler tags:

    Turret: Stationary glowing orb on top of an indestructable pedestal. When you get too close to the orb, or hover your crosshairs over it for too long, it retreats into the pedestal. It takes more damage than you might expect and you will generally need a few shots from a high damage weapon to take it out (and it retreats between shots, so takes a while). Fires a low-damage but accurate projectile.

    Spirit: A ghost-type enemy that possesses other enemies. Possessed enemies glow blue and get big buffs to their damage output and armour. When the host dies, the spirit pops out and you have a few seconds to kill it before it possesses another enemy. When it's out, it can only be damaged by the secondary beam-fire thingy on the plasma rifle (an obvious Ghostbusters nod). This is the least-bad of the new enemies, although the plasma gun mechanic is annoying.

    Blood Makyr: An angel-type enemy - basically a bigger version of the ones that you see towards the end of the main game. This one is faster and does more damage. It also spends most of the time invulnerable (indicated by a golden aura). It drops its shield when it uses one of its two big attacks and is vulnerable during that window (and a single headshot from certain weapons will kill it). Unfortunately, while the Marauder can be baited into dropping its invulnerability pretty easy, the Blood Makyr can go through very long periods of only using its small attacks (which don't drop its invul) and I couldn't find any particular way of baiting the big attacks. More annoying than the Marauder.
  • Bazooklad 24 Oct 2020 18:37:07 149 posts
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    This DLC really kicks you squarely in the nuts and all the time asking you "Is this what you wanted? Cuz this is what you're getting"

    I haven't finished it yet but it has plenty of WTF moments and some dubious platforming.

    It basically plays like the master levels on crack.
  • Rogueywon 24 Oct 2020 21:30:11 10,023 posts
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    Steam tells me that only 0.1% of players have got the achievements from the expansion. Either Steam is bugged, or sales of this have been awful.
  • dfunked09 24 Oct 2020 21:34:22 892 posts
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    I bet there are loads of people like me who loved Doom 2016 and ordered the deluxe edition based on that, but *ahem* bounced off Eternal pretty quickly and won't be back for the DLC.
  • BigOrkWaaagh 24 Oct 2020 21:38:30 9,874 posts
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    Doom 2016 is almost the perfect FPS as far as I'm concerned. I liked Eternal a lot - eventually - but there is too much going on in terms of your arsenal, the platforming is bad and it's a lot harder. I can see why people don't enjoy it as much.
  • Bichii 24 Oct 2020 21:38:35 3,795 posts
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    Rogueywon wrote:
    Steam tells me that only 0.1% of players have got the achievements from the expansion. Either Steam is bugged, or sales of this have been awful.
    On ps4 pretty much all dlc throphies are incredibly low. Rarely is any trophy over about 5% on the dlcs I've bought.
  • Awimbawe 24 Oct 2020 22:08:11 667 posts
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    Doom 2016 at least tries to change it up a bit but you still feel free enough to play it enough like doom but Eternal just shits up the whole Doom feel. I just want to rampage through weird maps filled with demons etc and blast away without having to worry about filling armour / health / ammo with silly systems that I couldn't give a rats ass about.

    I really don't want a load of added on platforming sections. Spend that time on making the shotgun all the sweeter !
  • Awimbawe 24 Oct 2020 22:08:12 667 posts
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    Doom 2016 at least tries to change it up a bit but you still feel free enough to play it enough like doom but Eternal just shits up the whole Doom feel. I just want to rampage through weird maps filled with demons etc and blast away without having to worry about filling armour / health / ammo with silly systems that I couldn't give a rats ass about.

    I really don't want a load of added on platforming sections. Spend that time on making the shotgun all the sweeter !
  • Duffking 25 Oct 2020 01:53:53 16,684 posts
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    I mean, the issue with the Marauders isn't that they're hard, because as every person loves to point out, they can be easily killed. The issue is that they suck, aren't fun to fight even when you know how, break the pacing of the game and look dumb as fuck when they run around because they move twice as fast as their run cycle animation looks like they should.

    I've actually been playing the game from the beginning on UV and it really feels like the whole thing was designed around the entire sandbox being available and then earlier levels just stripped stuff away. It doesn't play well at all until you get to the super gore nest, really. And by the last few levels the game is a bit of a slog.

    It great when it's at its best but it doesn't spend long there, and the extra life system seems like a massive crutch to cancel out all the random "oops you took 300 damage in .01 of a second" moments that sometimes happen.

    Doom 2016 was about taking the fight to the demons, while Eternal is about running away in circles and doing hit and run attacks, half the time. Maybe 2016 was too easy to cruise through with the super shotgun, but early stages in this game show that they lean way to hard on many monsters having one specific way to deal with them that's 10x more effective than anything else. Should have made it so that those things were only a little more effective, or instead made it so 2-3 weapons were less effective, instead of having "this is the one way you are allowed to fight this thing".

    Which is also why Marauders suck, there's literally only one way to deal with them in a game which tries to have a billion combat options.

    When it's out, it can only be damaged by the secondary beam-fire thingy on the plasma rifle
    That genuinely sounds fucking shite

    Edited by Duffking at 01:57:29 25-10-2020
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