Following So how much do people use linux these days? Page 2

  • fontgeeksogood 4 May 2020 21:04:40 10,031 posts
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    Armoured_Bear wrote:

    A PC is more than just the CPU and GPU, if you compare an Apple laptop with a pc that's half the price and has the same spec, you'll see that the Apple will often have a better screen, better trackpad, speakers, better build quality, cooling system etc.
    Tell me, is there some kind of miracle material involved in the cooling
  • pyper777 4 May 2020 21:09:33 247 posts
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    I basically put Linux on my old PC hardware, so if my main Windows PC fails I have something to use.
  • fontgeeksogood 4 May 2020 21:11:45 10,031 posts
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    Tim Apple wrote:
    I basically put Linux on my old PC hardware.
  • Nazo 4 May 2020 21:19:22 1,373 posts
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    fontgeeksogood wrote:
    Armoured_Bear wrote:

    A PC is more than just the CPU and GPU, if you compare an Apple laptop with a pc that's half the price and has the same spec, you'll see that the Apple will often have a better screen, better trackpad, speakers, better build quality, cooling system etc.
    Tell me, is there some kind of miracle material involved in the cooling
    Yup, you put it in the freezer, and that cools it enough to be able to run properly. https://www.macrumors.com/2018/07/17/core-i9-chip-macbook-pro-throttling/
  • Armoured_Bear 4 May 2020 21:27:27 28,876 posts
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    dominalien wrote:
    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    dominalien wrote:
    Macs used to be great back when they moved from PPC to x86. Not any more. I really need to get a new laptop, I have no idea what to get, apart from it canít be a Mac, as sad as that makes me.
    Why must it not be a mac and what does that make you sad?
    It must not be a Mac because they've lost me hardware-wise. Soldered on memory, soldered on ssd, a single port with dongles everywhere, no magsafe, terrible T2 chip, terrible keyboards recently, terrible bar instead of F keys.

    It makes me sad because their design really appeals to my taste, I appreciate the premium feel and I fully subscribe to their stance on privacy. I generally don't mind the price, as I'm prepared to pay a premium for stuff that really appeals. Though stuff like the recent $1000 monitor stand really puts me off them big time.
    Fair enough, they did address some stuff with the 16" Macbook pro and the shit keyboards are all gone now but yeah, I hate the soldered on shit.
  • Frogofdoom 4 May 2020 21:31:04 16,612 posts
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    @fontgeeksogood he is the sort of fucking idiot that apple love as they keep throwing money at their overpriced and under specced tech.
  • dominalien 4 May 2020 21:44:42 9,667 posts
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    Anyway, back on topic. I use Linux a lot and I consider it very good on the desktop and am very sad it doesn't get wider use.

    It's not perfect obviously and it can't do "everything Windows can", though that's not a limitation of the OS itself but rather of the software available for it, which in turn stems from its marketshare alone.

    There's also a lot of bad press for one reason or another with the most baffling thing I see all the time is Windows users going on Linux sites and threads and telling people Linux sucks and that they're stupid for not using Windows.

    The fact right now is installing a Linux is just as easy as installing Windows, out of the box it lets you browse the web and send and receive IMs and e-mails and make a document or a spreadsheet, and scan and print and your pendrives will work and many of your games will, too.

    Generally people think monopolies are bad, but somehow that doesn't seem to apply to the PC operating system and the office suite. I think it would be very beneficial to everyone, except obviously MS itself, if there was actual competition in the OS space. Right now they can do whatever they want and people have to suck it up and that's never a good thing.
  • dominalien 4 May 2020 21:51:56 9,667 posts
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    Frogofdoom wrote:
    @fontgeeksogood he is the sort of fucking idiot that apple love as they keep throwing money at their overpriced and under specced tech.
    Oh come on, there's no need for that. Apple have been very successful making and marketing products which people are willing to pay a premium for. Much like that Dior perfume you buy your wife for 150Ä that costs less than 1Ä to make or that diamond engagement ring which apparently has no actual value because the whole diamond market is controlled by a single company.
  • Dirtbox 4 May 2020 22:02:33 91,422 posts
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    I use it from time to time, it has slightly better compilers and some interesting little projects on git to get into, but overall I try not to as the community is fucking insufferable and it's pretty shit to do anything but the most basic bitch stuff with.

    Better than OSX though.

    Edited by Dirtbox at 22:05:46 04-05-2020
  • Frogofdoom 4 May 2020 22:03:55 16,612 posts
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    Or a monitor stand that costs almost nothing to make it costs a 1000 dollars. They make nice looking tech but its overpriced as hell.
  • dominalien 4 May 2020 22:05:55 9,667 posts
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    To be fair, the monitor stand is much more overpriced than other stuff they sell. I consider it a sort of market test on their part to see how much they can increase their margins.
  • Armoured_Bear 4 May 2020 22:12:02 28,876 posts
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    dominalien wrote:
    Frogofdoom wrote:
    @fontgeeksogood he is the sort of fucking idiot that apple love as they keep throwing money at their overpriced and under specced tech.
    Oh come on, there's no need for that. Apple have been very successful making and marketing products which people are willing to pay a premium for. Much like that Dior perfume you buy your wife for 150Ä that costs less than 1Ä to make or that diamond engagement ring which apparently has no actual value because the whole diamond market is controlled by a single company.
    Thanks, would be cool not to quote abusive morons like that, the ignore list means usually miss their bile.
  • Frogofdoom 4 May 2020 22:19:32 16,612 posts
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    Abusive moron or someone with 20 years experience working in hardware manufacturing, I even won an award as the ispa awards for innovative server design (a good few years back mind you). I have forgotten more than you will ever know about hardware so keep wasting your money you donkey.

    Maybe I'm both, who knows.

    Edited by Frogofdoom at 22:21:47 04-05-2020
  • nudistpete 4 May 2020 22:22:08 1,218 posts
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    dominalien wrote:
    Anyway, back on topic. I use Linux a lot and I consider it very good on the desktop and am very sad it doesn't get wider use.
    If this was 20 years ago when I was wearing my Gnome t-shirt and Gimp cap (oo-er missus) I'd be agreeing with you. I'd be looking down my nose at the Windows peons who couldn't have a swiss cheese theme applied to their windowing interface (which, even thinking now I quite miss).

    I don't think I could be arsed to spend the amount of time trying stuff like I did back then to find the best experience, I'm too old to be much of a tweaker in my home life. Windows just works well enough for me - and with raspberry pi's, docker desktop & Windows System for Linux there's little incentive to even consider dual-booting - why bother when I can install literally anything from both OS's and it just works in one place (admittedly I've not needed to run any X stuff, I'm sure that may be slightly more challenging....)

    I'd love a ruddy good alternative, though. I thought the bloke who owns Canonical was going to crack the defacto Linux desktop with Ubuntu, but I've always been disappointed with the experience.

    The one way Linux is way ahead on the desktop is package management. I've tried a few "Windows versions of apt/yum" over the years and they all have levels of suckage.
  • Frogofdoom 4 May 2020 22:25:29 16,612 posts
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    I'm much the same Pete. I struggle to find anything windows cant do for me so I cant be bothered to look elsewhere.

    The server market is another matter entirely.
  • beastmaster 4 May 2020 22:42:10 20,940 posts
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    Iíve worked with PCs and Unix etc. every day and have done for 25 years+. Last thing I want when I come home is to boot up Windows 10 or Linux.

    Iíve always liked Macs and Apple stuff for personal use. Tried Android on a Galaxy for 18 months and hated it. Iíve got a very high spec HP Spectre X360 and never really use it.

    Love my iMac. Started getting into shooting and editing videos and looking to move from iMovie to Final Cut Pro. Been looking at Logic Pro for sound production too.

    End of the day, itís just down to preference. Work - Windows 10 and UNIX. Fun and personal use - Apple.

    Will have to find a use for that Spectre.

    Edited by beastmaster at 22:42:26 04-05-2020
  • Tomo 4 May 2020 22:46:58 17,826 posts
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    I use Linux daily at work. It's great as a platform for programming, but I think a lot of that is because so much stuff started out there that people still have to use it because so many libraries etc depend on Linux.

    Now Windows Subsystem for Linux is a lovely thing in combination with X11. Then you get the best of both worlds, without a huge amount of downsides. Tbf, OSX is also great for programming, but I don't have as much experience of that.

    For games though, Windows hands down. I used to prefer OSX for general surfing and photo editing, Photoshop etc. But Windows 10 is really good, there's not a lot in it now for me.
  • Dirtbox 4 May 2020 23:02:17 91,422 posts
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    The unshakable belief that Linux can do everything and everyone else is an idiot for not using it grates on me. I use it, but I shut the fuck up about it.
  • Armoured_Bear 4 May 2020 23:13:48 28,876 posts
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    Dirtbox wrote:
    The unshakable belief that Linux can do everything and everyone else is an idiot for not using it grates on me. I use it, but I shut the fuck up about it.
    What do you think about Windows, user Dirtbox?
  • Psiloc 4 May 2020 23:28:38 5,533 posts
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    dominalien wrote:
    Psiloc wrote:
    Linux: Do some of the things that Windows can do with thrice the effort
    That makes me sad :-(
    As a fast, scalable and stable OS it goes without saying it can't be beaten. But for an end user just walking up to it to do computery things, it's easily the worst option. It's entirely due to market share and lack of user friendly software; that side of things

    We have to use it a lot on low power always on ARM devices and it amazes me how robust it is. But its 100% "boot into it if you have to" for me
  • Dirtbox 4 May 2020 23:29:32 91,422 posts
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    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    Dirtbox wrote:
    The unshakable belief that Linux can do everything and everyone else is an idiot for not using it grates on me. I use it, but I shut the fuck up about it.
    What do you think about Windows, user Dirtbox?
    Gets the job done and has a larger install base, so has more/better software.

    I like linux because it's still the wild west and I'm sort of into the awful user experience.

    Edited by Dirtbox at 00:13:11 05-05-2020
  • DodgyPast 6 May 2020 06:59:09 9,342 posts
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    So what distros do people use?

    Personally using Endeavour OS which is based on Arch.

    I'll probably swap to pure Arch eventually.
  • dominalien 6 May 2020 11:24:56 9,667 posts
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    It's almost as if you didn't see how disinterested everyone here is :-)

    I mostly use Ubuntu or its derivatives like Mint (yeah, I know, I'm so pleb). I like Mint because the guy(s) who run it take a lot of care to make sure you get the best experience. For instance, Mint 20 is coming out next month and they decided to implement fractional scaling, which was missing from Cinnamon until now, and they really made sure it's a good experience for everyone, regardless of what gfx card you have (there was tearing with Intel, for instance). Too often I see people just throw functionality out there, hope for the best and fix it up later if people run into problems.

    I also have a laptop with Manjaro, which I really like as well. And a gaming desktop with PopOS (Ubuntu-based again). That's been getting rave reviews from people, but I'm just not getting it myself, I've run into a few silly little problems here and there that I don't get elsewhere. But now Pop 20.04 is out, I just installed it last night and the new window tiling functionality looks interesting, will be looking at that later today, apparently it's like magic.

    Lenovo is bringing out Fedora on some of its laptops in the near future and I'm seriously considering getting one of those, so I may be a Fedora user soon. I haven't lived in rpm-land in years now, not since I started out with Linux in the early noughties, I hope it's going to be good to be back.

    On servers I run Proxmox, that's an awesome Debian-based hypervisor with various Linux servers as VMs and containers.

    What about DEs? I'm a Gnome dude myself, KDE is just too cluttered for me. I don't mind Cinnamon so much, but it's just so traditional.
  • dominalien 6 May 2020 11:35:39 9,667 posts
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    Psiloc wrote:
    dominalien wrote:
    Psiloc wrote:
    Linux: Do some of the things that Windows can do with thrice the effort
    That makes me sad :-(
    As a fast, scalable and stable OS it goes without saying it can't be beaten. But for an end user just walking up to it to do computery things, it's easily the worst option. It's entirely due to market share and lack of user friendly software; that side of things

    We have to use it a lot on low power always on ARM devices and it amazes me how robust it is. But its 100% "boot into it if you have to" for me
    I disagree here. The biggest hurdle is installation, which end users never do as the computer comes with Windows, after it's done there's nothing more to do. You just keep installing the updates. No forced restarts either, you install when you want and restart when it's convenient, if a restart is at all necessary, as very often it isn't.

    If by user-friendly you mean "exactly like what I already use and know, which basically means Photoshop and MS Office", then no, of course not. LibreOffice is competent and works, the much-maligned (once again, as far as I can tell because it's not exactly like Photoshop) GIMP is also competent and works, they both require a learning curve, as any new piece of software you come across.

    So I'd argue for an end user it's a better experience out of the box. You immediately have a document writing program, a spreadsheet program, a photo-editing program, a photo-organising program, a music-listening program, a browser, a mail program, a PDF viewer. You don't have to download/buy any of those.
  • nickthegun 6 May 2020 11:35:51 82,376 posts
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    I use Kali cuz im a badboy.
  • AcidSnake 6 May 2020 11:51:56 8,319 posts
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    @nudistpete
    I've been waiting for WSL2 to come to the standard Windows channel for a while now (indeed for Docker) and I believe they mentioned it should have been in the april update but I'm having no luck enabling it. Are you on the fast track or using WSL1?
  • DodgyPast 6 May 2020 11:56:32 9,342 posts
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    dominalien wrote:
    It's almost as if you didn't see how disinterested everyone here is :-)
    A few were ;)

    On servers I run Proxmox, that's an awesome Debian-based hypervisor with various Linux servers as VMs and containers.
    I've got my Windows and Linux as VMs running on top of UNRAID, it makes the most of the hardware I've got. Lots of dockers managing my plex workflow, nextcloud, shinobi and a pihole.

    What about DEs? I'm a Gnome dude myself, KDE is just too cluttered for me. I don't mind Cinnamon so much, but it's just so traditional.
    So far I like cinnamon with the papirus icons.

    I've found Arch to be a nice balance between the easier distros and gentoo which I once ran.

    Edited by DodgyPast at 11:57:47 06-05-2020
  • Psiloc 6 May 2020 12:54:17 5,533 posts
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    @dominalien The problem is not so much the fundamental apps like that because of course those exist, it's the millions of other pieces of software that either don't exist outside of Windows and Mac or are only available in weird command line form, or you have to compile yourself.

    For an average end user it's a compromise. It's free of course but it will make you work harder and some stuff just won't be available. Again it's not that there's anything wrong with the OS, it's entirely market share stuff. I'd love for it to become mainstream.
  • KnuttinAtoll 6 May 2020 13:39:13 8,146 posts
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    I do all my banking through Emulationstation.

    /tips fedora
  • senso-ji 6 May 2020 19:31:49 10,089 posts
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    CentOS is my prefered distro. Sure, it doesn't have the fanfare as Ubuntu or Fedora but it is a solid OS that can be used for just about any form of IT productivity without issue. We are moving from CentOS to RHEL at work soon and I couldn't be happier.

    Oh, and if people think modern Linux distros are a pain to set up and configure, you should give Solaris a try...
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