Following It's time to recognize the people who were sorely disappointed by Mass Effect 2.

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  • Bender-B-Rodriguez 7 May 2020 11:36:18 7 posts
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    There's a nice article on the site, called "10 years later, Mass Effect 2's Suicide Mission is BioWare at the top of its game". It's not the only one - there are quite a few people who really had a great time playing ME2. But for me, and other people who were utterly disappointed by this game, this is another reminder of the old saying "It's a great game, but not a great ME1 sequel".

    The single person who had something negative to say about the game in the comments was predictably downvoted to oblivion.

    I want to change that. I want to say, yes, ME 2 was fun, and obviously it was special for a lot of people - no denying that. But, at the same time it was painful, disappointing and some sort of a low point, for a lot of other people. And we deserve to be heard as well. It's time to acknowledge that ME2 is not the greatest game ever, because no matter how much you like it, in truth the game was very polarizing and didn't deliver for lots of ME fans.

    The actual reasons ME2 disappointed some players have been circling around the web for a long time. I guess the least I can do is attest to my own experience and explain why, in my eyes, it was such a huge disappointment. The very beginning of the game, where everything you did in ME1 (even if you imported your save file) was basically thrown to the trash, was a bad omen. Just letting you recreate your character anew felt like ME2 wants you to basically forget about your story. And story (and of course the great storytelling) was what I actually wanted to get out of the game.

    Then there were the crew missions - basically, the missions mechanic became obvious to me very quickly - collect crew members, and they will shortly ask you to go on a personal mission. Rinse and repeat. At some point, it reminded me a bit of Pokemon - collect them, evolve them, and prepare them for battle. Yes, the combat was great, but I wanted the amazing exploration feeling I got in ME1, continuing the story in which I was already invested, feeling there's something great at play. Everything in ME2 felt so compartmentalized in comparison. Some parts like exploring planets and scanning were dropped, but those, while clunky, made ME1 feel like you're really exploring places. In comparison, ME2 felt to me more like I was watching a movie, and I always knew what the next plot would be, because the missions were structured that way every time.

    Then there's the ending. The suicide mission, which is also in the title of the article that made me write all this. The magnum opus of BioWare. To me, the single most disappointing moment in my gaming career.

    Collecting those crew members, doing the predictable "loyalty" missions and preparing for the next stage of the game, got me thinking that was just the beginning. Honestly, it's been a while so I don't remember every detail - I do remember the game presented whatever came next as a one-way jump through the relay. I thought, stupidly, that I'll be going on to the next area of the game, where it will actually start. I thought the next chapter is where the story actually was. Oh boy, I couldn't have been more wrong. The suicide mission was just one battle, as you know. Sure, it was an interesting battle, but - what? Is that it?

    When it was over, I slowly realized ME2 just wasn't about continuing the ME saga. It was just about fighting, which it did well, but that's it. The suicide mission would never have been the point to the game which was supposed to be a sequel to ME1. It would be a single mission, in a much broader story. To me, it just felt meaningless, impact-less. Even if your team members died, there were no more missions that let you feel they were missing, it had no impact whatsoever. This was not "BioWare at the top of its game". It was BioWare robbing (some of) us of the game ME2 should have been. From what I hear, it only got worse with ME3, which I never bothered playing.


    I know a lot of people wouldn't agree with my experiences. But that's what I've experienced playing ME2. There were my expectations and they were sorely different from what ME2 delivered. I do acknowledge ME2 does some things very well - especially the combat. But I also know I wasn't the only one disappointed with ME2. It's time we stop thinking of ME2 as the best of BioWare, and treat it for what it is: a polarizing game, which a lot of people liked (for good reasons), but a ultimately, disappointed a lot of fans as well (for equally good reasons).


    (Edited a little to better structure the text. This is my first post, hope we have a nice discussion :) )

    Edited by Bender-B-Rodriguez at 12:00:58 07-05-2020

    Edited by Bender-B-Rodriguez at 12:07:50 07-05-2020
  • Mola_Ram 7 May 2020 11:36:59 24,819 posts
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    Wtf is going on today.
  • mothercruncher 7 May 2020 11:37:09 18,315 posts
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    I donít need a kitchen.
  • Mola_Ram 7 May 2020 11:37:32 24,819 posts
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    STRANGELOVE, GET IN HERE, STAT
  • KnuttinAtoll 7 May 2020 11:39:48 8,381 posts
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    mothercruncher wrote:
    I donít need a kitchen.
    Would you be interested in one of these fine leather jackets instead?
  • Rum_Monkey 7 May 2020 11:42:18 1,583 posts
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    Heh, bender.
  • Bender-B-Rodriguez 7 May 2020 11:44:34 7 posts
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    @Rum_Monkey Hello!
  • Bender-B-Rodriguez 7 May 2020 11:45:14 7 posts
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    Mola_Ram wrote:
    Wtf is going on today.
    Not sure? I just wanted to share.
  • Mola_Ram 7 May 2020 11:45:25 24,819 posts
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    Ok, fine

    It's a great game. The people who preferred ME1 are wrong.

    You meet characters that you actually care about, and the suicide mission gives you actual stakes because one of those characters you care about might be gone for good.

    Yes, planet scanning sucks, but sucks less than driving your moon buggy through vast, samey emptiness.

    Mordin is the literal greatest.

    The Shadow Broker DLC is brilliant.

    The end.

    Edited by Mola_Ram at 11:47:08 07-05-2020
  • Mola_Ram 7 May 2020 11:46:45 24,819 posts
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    Bender-B-Rodriguez wrote:
    Mola_Ram wrote:
    Wtf is going on today.
    Not sure? I just wanted to share.
    Sorry, there was just another thread before that seemed to come out of nowhere. Your opinion is valued!
  • Bender-B-Rodriguez 7 May 2020 11:53:23 7 posts
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    Mola_Ram wrote:
    Great points! But -

    The people who preferred ME1 are wrong.
    Come on man.

    You meet characters that you actually care about.
    I never felt I had enough time to care about them that much. I meet them in one mission, they tag along, you do another mission for them, and then you move on to the next one. For me, there wasn't a deep connection. I think BioWare did this a lot better in Dragon Age Origins - I really cared about the characters in that one.

    one of those characters you care about might be gone for good.
    They're never gone, because it's the last mission of the game. There's nothing after that. You never have to carry on without them, and while the game tells you they're dead, you never feel it in the story. There's no impact. You can always reload and do that last mission again, and the only difference will be the summary you get in the end. You will never feel any of these characters missing in the next mission, because there's no more content after that.

    sucks less than driving your moon buggy through vast, samey emptiness.
    I appreciate your opinion but you should understand, other people could think otherwise, and it's not one way or another. I never meant for you to think the way I do, just try to understand why people who were disappointed felt that way.

    Edited by Bender-B-Rodriguez at 11:55:27 07-05-2020
  • Bender-B-Rodriguez 7 May 2020 11:53:52 7 posts
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    Mola_Ram wrote:
    Bender-B-Rodriguez wrote:
    Mola_Ram wrote:
    Wtf is going on today.
    Not sure? I just wanted to share.
    Sorry, there was just another thread before that seemed to come out of nowhere. Your opinion is valued!
    Appreciate it!
  • DrStrangelove 7 May 2020 12:01:05 15,303 posts
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    Mola_Ram wrote:
    STRANGELOVE, GET IN HERE, STAT
    Meh, this has been done to death, no thanks. Everything has been said a thousand times and I don't care enough anymore to repeat it all. The idea that ME2 was better than ME1 has been thoroughly debunked, so let's just leave it there.
  • Mola_Ram 7 May 2020 12:03:02 24,819 posts
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    I love you man
  • Bender-B-Rodriguez 7 May 2020 12:03:52 7 posts
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    DrStrangelove wrote:
    Mola_Ram wrote:
    STRANGELOVE, GET IN HERE, STAT
    Meh, this has been done to death, no thanks. Everything has been said a thousand times and I don't care enough anymore to repeat it all. The idea that ME2 was better than ME1 has been thoroughly debunked, so let's just leave it there.
    I'm glad to hear you say that, but it doesn't seem that way when every mention of ME2 being less than perfect is being shot down immediately. I didn't want to argue about which game is better, and I'm not taking anything away from everyone who liked ME2. But I want people to recognize it's not perfect and it was certainly polarizing.
  • monsieur-Cosmo 7 May 2020 12:04:28 615 posts
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    But Zelda is still NOT an RPG.
  • DrStrangelove 7 May 2020 12:05:06 15,303 posts
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    One funny thing about the suicide mission though: on my frst playthrough I didn't know they could die. I'm a completionist so I did all the loyalty missions and the only one who died was the navigator or whatever she was, in that goo tube. It didn't really have any impact on me, I only later learned on the internet that your squadmates can die. Guess it was too late at that point to feel excited about it.
  • Decks 7 May 2020 12:05:13 27,417 posts
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    Finally someone brave enough to tackle one of the great injustices of the 21st century.
  • Nanocrystal 7 May 2020 12:07:32 2,265 posts
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    I agree Mirror's Edge 1 was vastly superior to Mirror's Edge 2.
  • robthehermit 7 May 2020 12:13:11 8,030 posts
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    No one died on my suicide mission.
  • DrStrangelove 7 May 2020 12:15:27 15,303 posts
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    @Bender-B-Rodriguez

    I used to be more diplomatic, I have a history in this forum of impersonally and matter-of-factly outlining the achievements and shortcomings of the different ME games. It's just that most people are stubborn and don't want to accept that ME1 was factually better so they go all "la la la can't hear you" and continue to slam anyone who speaks the truth. They're a little like Trumpists. No offence.
  • Mola_Ram 7 May 2020 12:17:06 24,819 posts
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    I think Strangelove is quite possibly the most droll (drollest?) person I've ever encountered, online or off.
  • JamboWayOh 7 May 2020 12:30:30 21,498 posts
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    Mola_Ram wrote:
    Ok, fine

    It's a great game. The people who preferred ME1 are wrong.

    You meet characters that you actually care about, and the suicide mission gives you actual stakes because one of those characters you care about might be gone for good.

    Yes, planet scanning sucks, but sucks less than driving your moon buggy through vast, samey emptiness.

    Mordin is the literal greatest.

    The Shadow Broker DLC is brilliant.

    The end.
    I like this guy.
  • Ror 7 May 2020 12:55:04 20,322 posts
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    My biggest annoyance with ME2 was the GCD on powers. On ME1 (which is obviously still the best ME), you could combo powers yourself. Say, Lift someone into the air, then Throw them into fucking orbit. If you wanted to do this in ME2, it meant having to wait for two characters' cooldowns before doing anything else, and it just felt like a massive backward step for combat.
  • minky-kong 7 May 2020 12:57:17 14,648 posts
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    Bender-B-Rodriguez wrote:
    There's a nice article on the site, called "10 years later, Mass Effect 2's Suicide Mission is BioWare at the top of its game". It's not the only one - there are quite a few people who really had a great time playing ME2. But for me, and other people who were utterly disappointed by this game, this is another reminder of the old saying "It's a great game, but not a great ME1 sequel".

    The single person who had something negative to say about the game in the comments was predictably downvoted to oblivion.

    I want to change that. I want to say, yes, ME 2 was fun, and obviously it was special for a lot of people - no denying that. But, at the same time it was painful, disappointing and some sort of a low point, for a lot of other people. And we deserve to be heard as well. It's time to acknowledge that ME2 is not the greatest game ever, because no matter how much you like it, in truth the game was very polarizing and didn't deliver for lots of ME fans.

    The actual reasons ME2 disappointed some players have been circling around the web for a long time. I guess the least I can do is attest to my own experience and explain why, in my eyes, it was such a huge disappointment. The very beginning of the game, where everything you did in ME1 (even if you imported your save file) was basically thrown to the trash, was a bad omen. Just letting you recreate your character anew felt like ME2 wants you to basically forget about your story. And story (and of course the great storytelling) was what I actually wanted to get out of the game.

    Then there were the crew missions - basically, the missions mechanic became obvious to me very quickly - collect crew members, and they will shortly ask you to go on a personal mission. Rinse and repeat. At some point, it reminded me a bit of Pokemon - collect them, evolve them, and prepare them for battle. Yes, the combat was great, but I wanted the amazing exploration feeling I got in ME1, continuing the story in which I was already invested, feeling there's something great at play. Everything in ME2 felt so compartmentalized in comparison. Some parts like exploring planets and scanning were dropped, but those, while clunky, made ME1 feel like you're really exploring places. In comparison, ME2 felt to me more like I was watching a movie, and I always knew what the next plot would be, because the missions were structured that way every time.

    Then there's the ending. The suicide mission, which is also in the title of the article that made me write all this. The magnum opus of BioWare. To me, the single most disappointing moment in my gaming career.

    Collecting those crew members, doing the predictable "loyalty" missions and preparing for the next stage of the game, got me thinking that was just the beginning. Honestly, it's been a while so I don't remember every detail - I do remember the game presented whatever came next as a one-way jump through the relay. I thought, stupidly, that I'll be going on to the next area of the game, where it will actually start. I thought the next chapter is where the story actually was. Oh boy, I couldn't have been more wrong. The suicide mission was just one battle, as you know. Sure, it was an interesting battle, but - what? Is that it?

    When it was over, I slowly realized ME2 just wasn't about continuing the ME saga. It was just about fighting, which it did well, but that's it. The suicide mission would never have been the point to the game which was supposed to be a sequel to ME1. It would be a single mission, in a much broader story. To me, it just felt meaningless, impact-less. Even if your team members died, there were no more missions that let you feel they were missing, it had no impact whatsoever. This was not "BioWare at the top of its game". It was BioWare robbing (some of) us of the game ME2 should have been. From what I hear, it only got worse with ME3, which I never bothered playing.


    I know a lot of people wouldn't agree with my experiences. But that's what I've experienced playing ME2. There were my expectations and they were sorely different from what ME2 delivered. I do acknowledge ME2 does some things very well - especially the combat. But I also know I wasn't the only one disappointed with ME2. It's time we stop thinking of ME2 as the best of BioWare, and treat it for what it is: a polarizing game, which a lot of people liked (for good reasons), but a ultimately, disappointed a lot of fans as well (for equally good reasons).


    (Edited a little to better structure the text. This is my first post, hope we have a nice discussion :) )

    Edited by Bender-B-Rodriguez at 12:00:58 07-05-2020
    Can I offer you a nice egg in these trying times?
  • hedben2013 7 May 2020 12:58:01 1,770 posts
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    ME2 improved on ME1 in almost every way, but ME1 will always hold a special place in my heart because it was like nothing I'd ever played before. I could say the same about Borderlands/BL2, Ass Creed/AC2- it's just a sequel thing.
  • the_milkybar_kid 7 May 2020 12:58:11 8,348 posts
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    I played 2 and 3 a few years before 1. Whilst the story was great and I enjoyed the nature of Shephard being this elite space cop, the gameplay and design were enough to make me want to drink bleach. Horrible game to play.
  • hedben2013 7 May 2020 12:59:14 1,770 posts
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    Ror wrote:
    My biggest annoyance with ME2 was the GCD on powers. On ME1 (which is obviously still the best ME), you could combo powers yourself. Say, Lift someone into the air, then Throw them into fucking orbit. If you wanted to do this in ME2, it meant having to wait for two characters' cooldowns before doing anything else, and it just felt like a massive backward step for combat.
    Although this is a valid point, the combat in ME2 felt like it had actually been lifted from a third person action game a la Gears. The combat in ME1 felt like it was tacked onto an RPG

    Edited by hedben2013 at 13:00:08 07-05-2020
  • Ror 7 May 2020 13:01:47 20,322 posts
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    ME1's combat was certainly a bit more ramshackle, and 2's a bit more polished, but they polished out the things I liked about 1's.

    Also, overheating > stupid ammo
  • disusedgenius 7 May 2020 13:12:54 10,625 posts
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    All the Gears combat did was make for that horseshit level design where they have to crowbar waist height cover into every other room to make it work.
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