Following Horizon Forbidden West Page 2

  • Armoured_Bear 15 Jun 2020 13:51:45 28,876 posts
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    Mola_Ram wrote:
    Hopefully they can have some better writing this time.
    Wait, what?
    IMO that was the best part of the first game.
    Best story I've encountered in a game.
  • Rhaegyr 15 Jun 2020 13:57:27 5,176 posts
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    You need to play more games if this has the best story you've encountered (disclaimer: I quite liked the game/story).
  • StarchildHypocrethes 15 Jun 2020 14:00:09 33,025 posts
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    I thought the story was pretty ham-fisted and utterly unsurprising.
  • BigOrkWaaagh 15 Jun 2020 14:02:57 9,449 posts
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    I thought the story was quite interesting to be honest but I wasn't as mad about the actual game as most of the internet.
  • Armoured_Bear 15 Jun 2020 14:04:24 28,876 posts
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    Rhaegyr wrote:
    You need to play more games if this has the best story you've encountered (disclaimer: I quite liked the game/story).
    Such as?
    The gradual revelation of how the apocalypse took place was utterly engrossing to me.
  • Mola_Ram 15 Jun 2020 14:07:49 24,022 posts
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    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    Mola_Ram wrote:
    Hopefully they can have some better writing this time.
    Wait, what?
    IMO that was the best part of the first game.
    Best story I've encountered in a game.
    It's a game where you do the coolest shit imaginable, shooting bits off of robot dinosaurs, many of which you can also ride. You ride on dinosaurs and shoot other dinosaurs with exploding arrows, it's amazing.

    It is also a game where the average quest is "I HAVE LOST MY FAVOURITE SPEAR, CAN YOU GO FIND IT FOR ME". Or some other stupid fetch quest given by someone with no personality or character.

    It's not really any worse than your average open world game, but it's more disappointing in a way because the ambition of the technology is not matched by the other aspects of the game.

    Edited by Mola_Ram at 14:20:22 15-06-2020
  • Mola_Ram 15 Jun 2020 14:10:08 24,022 posts
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    Which is not to say that the game was bad! Just that anything to do with humans in it (including battles against humans) was bland af, and I hope the sequel improves on it.
  • Steve-Perry 15 Jun 2020 14:13:26 1,517 posts
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    It's a typical example of a game being excessive and bloated to provide 'value' when it could have been 20 hours shorter and a better experience. The only side quests I actually liked were the vista ones, because the guy would tell you about the world as it was, and you could get a cool before and after rendered in the game engine.

    All the rest of them were straight out of rubbish like Ass Crud.

    I think the main story was cool but it got watered down by all the OCD fetch quests, not enhanced by them.

    Edited by Steve-Perry at 14:13:39 15-06-2020
  • Rhaegyr 15 Jun 2020 14:14:32 5,176 posts
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    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    Rhaegyr wrote:
    You need to play more games if this has the best story you've encountered (disclaimer: I quite liked the game/story).
    Such as?
    The gradual revelation of how the apocalypse took place was utterly engrossing to me.
    Off the top of my head - Silent Hill 2, Planescape: Torment, KOTOR, Red Dead Redemptiom, System Shock 2/Bioshock, Grim Fandango.
  • Mola_Ram 15 Jun 2020 14:16:13 24,022 posts
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    I guess doing good writing must be really hard or something. Because there's plenty of companies (see also: Bethesda) that pour millions into state-of-the-art technology but have quest designs that are basically unchanged since the 90s.

    And I speak only for myself, but pretty graphics have had diminishing returns for years now. Eventually the only way to possibly improve in realism will be to improve the quality of writing, and I personally cannot wait until that day comes.

    Edited by Mola_Ram at 14:24:17 15-06-2020
  • Rhaegyr 15 Jun 2020 14:23:10 5,176 posts
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    I think it is - even games that are held aloft for their great writing (such as Uncharted) make me think "well, it's good for a game".
  • Steve-Perry 15 Jun 2020 14:24:59 1,517 posts
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    I was making that point about TLOU recently. Story was good because it wasn't completely infantile like most games, but the presentation of the story was about on par with a PS1 game, just with better voice acting.
  • Derblington 15 Jun 2020 14:28:39 33,438 posts
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    Only in so far as the format of delivery is the same, but the actual craft in the cutscenes, in terms of direction, mo-cap, acting and rendering are all leagues ahead.
  • Derblington 15 Jun 2020 14:29:15 33,438 posts
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    And there are other tings thatíll improve immersion, like animation and AI.

    Ed: and audio!

    Edited by Derblington at 14:30:36 15-06-2020
  • Steve-Perry 15 Jun 2020 14:30:22 1,517 posts
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    It's still terrible though. Horizon was lauded for better mo cap and it still looked like a load of dead eyed melted basketballs with holes for eyes and a mouth.
  • Mola_Ram 15 Jun 2020 14:31:10 24,022 posts
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    Rhaegyr wrote:
    I think it is - even games that are held aloft for their great writing (such as Uncharted) make me think "well, it's good for a game".
    I suppose. But given the untold millions spent on gaming tech, you'd think that maybe the writing side of the equation wouldn't be nearly as expensive.

    I guess it's just not as valued as it is in other mediums? Maybe there's a kind of self-reinforcing "oh, we don't need to spend money on realistic dialogue because it's just a game, people have low expectations" thing going on.
  • Mola_Ram 15 Jun 2020 14:32:44 24,022 posts
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    Just do away with fucking fetch quests, I'll be happy if they can do that much.
  • Derblington 15 Jun 2020 14:35:02 33,438 posts
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    Horizon had better mo-cap? The facial anims were picked apart in reviews and by players.
    They improved it for the DLC but Iíve not played that.

    Edited by Derblington at 14:35:45 15-06-2020
  • quadfather 15 Jun 2020 14:35:57 36,747 posts
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    I went back to the dlc after spending countless hours on the original and I still can't fucking do one of the side quests. It's where you have to climb up a wall, and then as soon as you land on the other side, there are 4 fucking goons that lob exploding kitchen sinks in your face. It's doing my head in.
  • quadfather 15 Jun 2020 14:37:07 36,747 posts
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    BigOrkWaaagh wrote:
    I tried to start the Horizon DLC recently after not having touched the game since release and I might as well have been playing with my elbows, I couldn't remember a thing. I probably need to redo the whole thing but I don't know if I have it in me.
    Haha it's not you - I've just posted above this about the DLC. It's definitely a ramp up in difficulty. Plus, can't remember how to reload, select multiple arrows, where's the fucking slowdown button?, etc
  • Rhaegyr 15 Jun 2020 14:42:40 5,176 posts
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    Mola_Ram wrote:
    Rhaegyr wrote:
    I think it is - even games that are held aloft for their great writing (such as Uncharted) make me think "well, it's good for a game".
    I suppose. But given the untold millions spent on gaming tech, you'd think that maybe the writing side of the equation wouldn't be nearly as expensive.

    I guess it's just not as valued as it is in other mediums? Maybe there's a kind of self-reinforcing "oh, we don't need to spend money on realistic dialogue because it's just a game, people have low expectations" thing going on.
    I think you've nailed it there.

    It's probably also tough to tell a tight, focussed story when the agency of the story relies of the player.

    I struggle with most game stories as they're so po-faced and serious. Everything is high stakes, end of the world and overly dramatic.

    You can get 'smaller', more personal stories in games (Edith Finch and the like) but then the gameplay seems to take a backseat.

    Not sure what the solution is!
  • Steve-Perry 15 Jun 2020 14:44:30 1,517 posts
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    Derblington wrote:
    Horizon had better mo-cap? The facial anims were picked apart in reviews and by players.
    They improved it for the DLC but Iíve not played that.
    Well maybe not then. I don't know, I seem to remember it being picked up on. It was very weird to me.

    But my broader points stands. And it's not the facial animation anyway, it's the bland, Hollywood wannabie cutscenes that I don't like. They could be photo realistic and it would still bore me to death.

    We will never agree. I want games to be games, you seem to want them to be more like movies. Bygones.
  • Mola_Ram 15 Jun 2020 14:47:58 24,022 posts
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    @Rhaegyr

    I think some smaller games manage it well (eg. Disco Elysium). And some larger games do too - your Fallout New Vegases and Witcher 3s.

    Yes it is an absolute fuckton of work creating believable, textured writing in an already massive game, but I don't know that it's that much more work than animating and building textures and whatnot. Games could have great writing if developers prioritised it.

    Edited by Mola_Ram at 14:48:58 15-06-2020
  • You-can-call-me-kal 15 Jun 2020 15:27:13 20,087 posts
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    I liked the world and combat of HZD a lot, but yes, the game itself was full of filler, crap writing and generally quite boring.

    If Guerilla werenít PS exclusive and good at hype then theyíd be a nothing studio imo. They basically make very pretty games that arenít as good as everyone wants them to be.
  • creepiest-lizard 15 Jun 2020 15:33:19 1,428 posts
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    I can forgive a lot of bland writing for robot dinosaur fighting..
  • Decks Best Forumite, 2016 15 Jun 2020 15:36:14 25,655 posts
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    Dunno if they'd be a nothing studio, the make some of the best looking games ever which will always be popular. They never quite nail the gameplay for me though, I found Horizon a bit of a chore.
  • Steve-Perry 15 Jun 2020 15:36:26 1,517 posts
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    Hopefully they'll take some of the feedback the first one got and cut out some of the bloat this time.
  • Derblington 15 Jun 2020 15:38:47 33,438 posts
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    Steve-Perry wrote:
    We will never agree. I want games to be games, you seem to want them to be more like movies. Bygones.
    I donít want games to be anything specific. I donít mind which way they want to deliver a story, itís specific to the title.

    Edited by Derblington at 15:38:57 15-06-2020
  • PierrePressure 15 Jun 2020 15:40:53 1,113 posts
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    I think that's a little harsh on HZD, but generally I agree.

    HZD is their standout game and by some distance.
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