Following Horizon Forbidden West Page 3

  • Steve-Perry 15 Jun 2020 15:43:37 1,517 posts
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    Fair do's Derbs. You mentioned audio as a factor, I think Hellblade has the best audio ever. I finished it in two sittings and felt really fucking off after playing it due to all the whispering (with headphones on).

    I should make a thread about discussion of gaming storytelling because it really interests me and I wouldn't mind people giving recommendation of games that have really innovative presentation. And we can have a barney in there instead :)

    Edited by Steve-Perry at 15:44:12 15-06-2020
  • Armoured_Bear 15 Jun 2020 15:44:18 28,876 posts
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    Rhaegyr wrote:
    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    Rhaegyr wrote:
    You need to play more games if this has the best story you've encountered (disclaimer: I quite liked the game/story).
    Such as?
    The gradual revelation of how the apocalypse took place was utterly engrossing to me.
    Off the top of my head - Silent Hill 2, Planescape: Torment, KOTOR, Red Dead Redemptiom, System Shock 2/Bioshock, Grim Fandango.
    Red read redemption story was wank, Bioshock was obviously great. Haven't played the others.
  • JamboWayOh 15 Jun 2020 15:44:39 20,059 posts
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    You-can-call-me-kal wrote:
    I liked the world and combat of HZD a lot, but yes, the game itself was full of filler, crap writing and generally quite boring.

    If Guerilla werenít PS exclusive and good at hype then theyíd be a nothing studio imo. They basically make very pretty games that arenít as good as everyone wants them to be.
    That's overly harsh.
  • Armoured_Bear 15 Jun 2020 15:47:44 28,876 posts
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    The writing of quests is one thing, which can definitely be criticised, but the overall story arc was great. I was enthralled to find out what the hell happened. I'm rarely anywhere near that invested in a video game story.

    The gameplay was good rather than great though, the visuals and story compensated for me. I expected to find it Ubisoftwank so was a nice surprise to be so enjoyable.
  • You-can-call-me-kal 15 Jun 2020 15:50:53 20,087 posts
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    JamboWayOh wrote:
    You-can-call-me-kal wrote:
    I liked the world and combat of HZD a lot, but yes, the game itself was full of filler, crap writing and generally quite boring.

    If Guerilla werenít PS exclusive and good at hype then theyíd be a nothing studio imo. They basically make very pretty games that arenít as good as everyone wants them to be.
    That's overly harsh.
    Maybe. Itís just my opinion.

    HZD is conceptually very interesting and some of the mechanics are great. Itís so nearly a very good game, but (again, for me) it falls down on the most important factor which is creating a varied, engaging and compelling experience. It becomes a chore which is the last thing any game should feel like.

    I just donít think theyíd have got as far as they have without being PS exclusive. Most studios donít get to make four massively hyped and extremely underwhelming games before moving onto a fifth (and now sixth).
  • Steve-Perry 15 Jun 2020 15:51:40 1,517 posts
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    The MSQ kept me involved enough to finish it.

    I can barely remember what happened now though. I think I played it 2 years ago.

    Definitely going to replay on PC but I'm not doing any side quests apart from the one that gives you that game breaking suit of armour.
  • Rhaegyr 15 Jun 2020 16:05:50 5,176 posts
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    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    Rhaegyr wrote:
    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    Rhaegyr wrote:
    You need to play more games if this has the best story you've encountered (disclaimer: I quite liked the game/story).
    Such as?
    The gradual revelation of how the apocalypse took place was utterly engrossing to me.
    Off the top of my head - Silent Hill 2, Planescape: Torment, KOTOR, Red Dead Redemptiom, System Shock 2/Bioshock, Grim Fandango.
    Red read redemption story was wank, Bioshock was obviously great. Haven't played the others.
    Hmmm. Kinda reinforces my initial point.
  • Nanocrystal 16 Jun 2020 01:36:08 2,134 posts
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    Sure there were some uninspired side quests and a number of one-dimensional minor characters but I found HZD's main story and lore really engaging and the big reveals were brilliantly paced throughout the main quests. I particularly like the way the game explores the different ways people react to an impending apocalypse (and a true extinction event at that, rather than "just" the fall of civilisation), including psychological effects, ways of coping, etc. Found it really affecting. Given that the writers started off with just the cool but frankly ridiculous concept of primitive tribes fighting robot dinosaurs and had to invent a backstory to justify it, they could easily have hand-waved some bullshit backstory (or had none at all) but what they came up with is pretty well thought-out.
  • Armoured_Bear 16 Jun 2020 08:17:21 28,876 posts
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    Nanocrystal wrote:
    Sure there were some uninspired side quests and a number of one-dimensional minor characters but I found HZD's main story and lore really engaging and the big reveals were brilliantly paced throughout the main quests. I particularly like the way the game explores the different ways people react to an impending apocalypse (and a true extinction event at that, rather than "just" the fall of civilisation), including psychological effects, ways of coping, etc. Found it really affecting.
    Totally agree.
  • You-can-call-me-kal 16 Jun 2020 08:29:38 20,087 posts
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    I do agree they did a very nice job of creating a substantial, meaningful and actually original world, and by that I mean the umbrella story and lore. Thatís partly why the more granular stories and dialogues within the larger narrative being so poor was so frustrating.

    Strongly disagree that RDR2 suffered from the same problem. The quality of writing and acting in each mission was pound for pound the best of any game Iíve played when you consider the size and quantity of them.
  • Frogofdoom 16 Jun 2020 08:47:46 16,612 posts
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    The combat (against robots) and world were great in horizon which for me was the thing that saved the game from being average. It did have a load of unnecessary filler in it though.
  • nickthegun 16 Jun 2020 08:52:12 82,376 posts
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    The main story was big enough in scope to really suck me in and i thought the world was really engaging. I did stop doing the side quests and push through to finish the main story, though, because I did feel open world fatigue coming in and I really wanted to see the credits roll.

    I suppose my biggest criticism is that a few of the systems feel half baked. I used one method of combat all the way through (bwaam arrows and snipe) and despite them making a huge deal about it, the only thing the cure monster thing does is get you a horse.

    The animals are all so fucking dumb, they just wander off when you make them friendly, so you can't really set up these huge battle royales. They could have done a whole sub-pokemon thing where you can keep a monster as a pet, level it up.... anything. Except you jab it with your stick and it does nothing.
  • You-can-call-me-kal 16 Jun 2020 09:14:38 20,087 posts
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    Yeah completely agree.

    I do think there is potential for the next one to be an incredible game. It is often the case with games that the first sequel is the one that really nails it. Again I just donít have a huge amount of faith in Guerilla.
  • Mola_Ram 16 Jun 2020 09:26:02 24,022 posts
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    I remember the relatively-negative EG review at the time was a huge point of contention for the commenteriat. But in retrospect, they were bang on.
  • Frogofdoom 16 Jun 2020 09:31:59 16,612 posts
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    I still thought it was one of the better games I played that year but it could have done with a bit of bloat clear and some better ai. Oddly I couldnt get into the expansion, despite it being more of the same.
  • Derblington 16 Jun 2020 09:53:23 33,438 posts
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    I think I'll do a NG+ and play the DLC at some point, to just smash through the core path again before I play the second.
  • JamboWayOh 16 Jun 2020 10:21:48 20,059 posts
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    I'm guessing this might be releasing 2022 so you got a while to do that NG+ and DLC.
  • IronGiant 16 Jun 2020 14:25:34 6,115 posts
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    Ainít opinions great ;)

    I thought Horizon was fantastic and it really clicked with me, more so than even Spiderman. Loved the world, the setting, the background story that opened up during the game, enjoyed the robot dinosaurs a lot more than the human enemies and thoroughly enjoyed the DLC too.

    Itís not perfect by any means but it kept me engaged and really looking forward to the next one. As far as GG go, for me Killzone 2 provided some of the best online multiplayer gaming Iíve had even to this day.. even the PSVita Killzone was great.
  • quadfather 16 Jun 2020 14:30:24 36,747 posts
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    Even weirder is that when I first starting playing it, and you end up in that vault right at the start - I was completely hooked on the "previous world" thing - that's right up my street, stuff like that, so I was instantly hooked.

    But like Nick says, I basically used the following method -

    1) Snipe / Override
    2) Bwaam arrows
    3) Finish it off with standard arrows

    Which I agree, is fairly basic, but because of my love for the story, it didn't matter. In fact, I kinda like the fact I found a simple way through, because it made me feel like I didn't have to piss about with a million different ropecasting/bombs/elemental arrows and I was free to potter about in my own way.

    Which is crazy really, but I really enjoyed the whole thing.

    Riddle me that :D
  • quadfather 16 Jun 2020 14:31:46 36,747 posts
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    However, it must be noted that my fighting approach in the DLC totally handed my arse back to me.
  • Tomo 16 Jun 2020 14:44:27 17,826 posts
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    I've always been tempted by HZD, especially with the upcoming PC release, but I suffer openworld fatigue with most games like this. How long would it take to just mainline the story?
  • PierrePressure 16 Jun 2020 16:16:52 1,113 posts
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    Didn't this come out at around the same time as BotW? Which it got compared to by quite a few if I remember correctly.
  • nickthegun 16 Jun 2020 16:22:23 82,376 posts
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    Tomo wrote:
    How long would it take to just mainline the story?
    The main campaign is pretty chunky. Well over 20hrs even if you cane it, I reckon.
  • quadfather 16 Jun 2020 16:27:31 36,747 posts
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    Yeah, definitely - it's quite a big one
  • quadfather 16 Jun 2020 16:27:56 36,747 posts
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    PierrePressure wrote:
    Didn't this come out at around the same time as BotW? Which it got compared to by quite a few if I remember correctly.
    Yes - and I was right in middle of exactly that conversation about it at the time :)
  • Mola_Ram 17 Jun 2020 04:25:42 24,022 posts
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    MrAGSystems wrote:
    The varied, engaging and compelling experience comes form the variety of enemies, your variety of weapons, and the variety of ways you engage the former with the latter. You know, the interactive bits of the interactive medium you're engaging with.

    Videogame are also a very visual medium - it's the most technically impressive console game ever made with some captivating art design (bits of it made me think I was walking around a Roger Dean painting).

    If you watch the NoClip documentary, you'll see Horizon is the game they wanted to make. Not another Killzone. They made Horizon, it sold a crazy amount, spawned a new AAA franchise and is loved by a lot of people. You may not be enamoured with it - that's fine, such is your opinion - but they've more than proven themselves with Horizon.
    If you're going to have people talking in your interactive game, then it hurts the experience when a lot of them are like "please fetch my spear that my mother gave to me, ok thanks". It might not be *as* important as other aspects of the experience - everyone's mileage may vary on this point - but it's not nothing.

    And yes, the game is technically impressive (I don't think anyone actually disputes this) and sold really well. That's great. But the "it's popular so therefore objectively great" argument doesn't work for movies, and it shouldn't work for games.

    (sorry for replying for kal, but I sort of started the "HZD has mediocre writing" argument and feel the need to defend it)

    Edited by Mola_Ram at 04:28:20 17-06-2020
  • Nanocrystal 17 Jun 2020 05:46:31 2,134 posts
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    I dunno Mola, there may have been the odd side quest like that, but my recollection is that most of them had at least some kind of narrative twist or unexpected reveal. Certainly they were not all at Witcher 3 standard, but they were often better than many other highly-regarded contemporary open world games (Assassin's Creed Origins being a good example of truly atrocious side quests).

    And describing the writing as a whole as mediocre because of a few undercooked side quests is a bit unfair I think. There are lots of examples of very good writing. The main quest and the way you learn the world's backstory along with Aloy was cleverly structured and well paced, and in particular many of the little audiologs and bits of text you find scattered about the world were great.

    The Frozen Wilds DLC for example has a really memorable audiolog side story about a couple of disgruntled employees in the process of being replaced by automation, who form a punk band. It has strong characterisation, genuinely funny writing, relevance to our world as well as the game's world, it even ties beautifully into the game's lore and your actual side quest via a tribe member who discovers the acoustics of the location and finds a way to play "music" of their own. This attracts snapmaws who guard the entrance, bringing gameplay consequences into the mix too. The whole thing has ludonarrative coherence and has clearly had a lot of thought and planning put into it.
  • Mola_Ram 17 Jun 2020 06:39:30 24,022 posts
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    Like I said, mileage may vary.

    Fwiw I don't think it was actively terrible ( I'd call it more bland than bad), but as others have said it's more disappointing in this case because so many other aspects of the game were really ambitious. You've got a massive, beautiful world, an original story and great lore, but somehow you're still stuck doing dumb challenges and fetch quests.

    Edited by Mola_Ram at 07:00:30 17-06-2020
  • You-can-call-me-kal 17 Jun 2020 06:41:50 20,087 posts
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    Mola_Ram wrote:
    (sorry for replying for kal, but I sort of started the "HZD has mediocre writing" argument and feel the need to defend it)
    Feel free to always do that when it comes to Fuzzy.
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