The Last of Us 2 SPOILER DISCUSSION. Page 6

  • Bichii 2 Jul 2020 07:35:22 3,179 posts
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    I really hope Niel and ND now go on to make a new i.p.

    Only new tlou I want for now is the excellent mp, I'd be all over that.

    If we had to have another one I guess it could tell any story in the world, definitely not a part 3 which would need to include Ellie or Abby and I don't see how we can carry on with these two women.

    Maybe the Santa Barbara firefly story or something. I kinda like the idea of the firefly's and playing as one of them.
  • creepiest-lizard 2 Jul 2020 07:54:16 1,428 posts
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    I think Abby finding the fireflys and they developing a cure but needing Ellie would be good. Part of the game could be Abby searching America for Ellie.
  • DeadDeadpool 2 Jul 2020 08:42:45 56 posts
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    Finally the watch through is complete..

    Graphics 10/10
    Naughty Dog high end visuals all the way.
    Definitely makes the PS4 all time Top 5 in the looks department.
    No.1 position will always be held by Death Stranding, as that game somehow managed to push the PS4 to another level, when it comes to visuals. The Last of Us Pt2 impresses in other ways, featuring locations packed with lots of little details, done like only Naughty Dog knows how to do.


    Lip synch could use work. Characters could look more wet when in, exiting water. At the end, Abbyís hair failed to look wet when being dunked under water?

    The character animation looks great.



    Sound 10/10
    Good sound effects. Great voice acting. Good music.


    Story 3/10
    Canít say as it did much.

    Game Play 4/10 and 8/10
    Excluding the end section, The Last of Us Pt2 can be broken into a game of two
    halves.
    There is Ellieís half and there is Abbyís half.

    Ellieís half felt somewhat dull, featuring lots of empty spaces, lots of draw searching, broken up with short bouts of enemy action.

    By contrast, Abbyís half plays like a new team got involved, and decided to make-a-game. Abby has lots to do. Lots of climbing, shooting, more action in general. It felt like Naught Dog woke up to the fact Ellieís half lacked game play.

    Just as Naught Dog did with the Uncharted series, they cannot help but include one on one fights that require the player to respond to on screen prompts - stab the square button, hold the triangle button etc. They should drop such ideas.


    The features good looking dogs.


    During this section of the game, i fully expected to see a shark. It never happens.


    Something about this location the impressed the hell out of me, visually atleast.

    Edited by DeadDeadpool at 08:43:08 02-07-2020
  • Bichii 2 Jul 2020 08:46:18 3,179 posts
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    Gameplay 4 out of 10 when you didn't play it? You are definitely single.

    Graphics as well? Watching a stream isn't compatible in general to playing it on your own system.

    Why have there seen so many nutters registering to comment on this game?
  • PierrePressure 2 Jul 2020 09:11:31 1,113 posts
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    I completed it last night and it's easily 10/10 for me.
    I know a lot of people aren't impressed with representation within the game but I thought it gave the story a fresh look at a typical revenge story.

    One thread from the story that I felt needed more attention was Isaac, he was alluded to for a long time but when you finally meet him it's kinda drab.

    Didn't affect my overall enjoyment just nitpicking really.
  • eshy76 2 Jul 2020 09:26:53 190 posts
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    Bichii wrote:
    @eshy76 I don't know exactly but it feels like you take a lot more damage and they are more aggressive but I've also put it up another difficulty as well as +. Don't think they scale as such as it's not harder to kill any of them. On + you are definitely more of a terminator and I've been playing a lot more aggressively.

    Also you can pick custom + and hand pick what you want to do..so pick your health, enemy aggressive level, supplies level etc.
    Thank you - that's really helpful!
  • Bichii 2 Jul 2020 09:40:59 3,179 posts
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    @PierrePressure yes I definitely wanted more Isaac! I loved what we did get of him so I wanted more. Plus I really like the voice actor who plays him.
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 2 Jul 2020 09:52:20 9,030 posts
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    I wondered if some of Isaac's scenes had ended up on the cutting floor. He's set up as quite a major character, but then only actually gets 2 on-screen scenes, with everything else about him being in text logs. You end up with a bit of a gap in your understanding of him, which feels odd given that Abby (who you play as for hours), has clearly known him well for quite some time and is part of his inner circle.

    I got the feeling that they were going for some kind of "brilliant but unstable" thing with him. He's built what looks like a well functioning and relatively humane society (by the standards of their world), but clearly has a very short fuse and a propensity to eye-watering violence at very short notice.
  • Bichii 2 Jul 2020 10:04:11 3,179 posts
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    I got the impression from Isaac's main scene that he is just tired. This has been going on for years now and he has tried the truce and other means but it keeps going back to these terrorist skirmishes.

    Not sure if any of you noticed but he is on the fedra wanted posters in the early Seattle open world section. He is maybe third in command in the initial wlf setup trying to take on fedra.
    Then later through collectables you discovery all the hierarchy above him get taken out by fedra and that Isaac has now taken command.

    From there wlf become more successful and ended up destroying fedra in Seattle but yeah maybe he did have a couple more scenes but damn this game is long already.
  • chopsen 2 Jul 2020 10:08:47 21,045 posts
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    They could have easily cut back on the Abby bits.

    The protracted platforming to get to the bridge mostly didn't really add anything (yes I know there are parts which build the relationship with Lev but fuck me the rest can go and fuck itself).

    Alternatively do a flashback to when Abby meets Isaac, instead of ellie and the bloody dinosaurs.
  • ZuluHero 2 Jul 2020 10:10:34 8,931 posts
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    There were loads of plot threads that felt part of some grandiose arcs, but evidently got cut, such as the breakdown of the truce between the Wolves and the Scars, thought there was going to be some big revelation leading to something to do with Issac or something.

    In regards to the 'choose your own adventure' stuff, it would have been so simple to implement but give massive impact to the player.

    If Ellie had lost her fingers prior to meeting Abby, which could have happened in any of the encounters - having them bitten off when she was being pushed into the infected by the Rattlers would have been a good place.

    Then when they got to the boats and were about to go their separate ways, do the flashback thing that initiates Ellie's rage attack, but instead have a "confront Abby" or "Get in the boat"

    The ending wouldn't have changed at all, but it would given players a great deal of volition, especially after learning both sides of the story. It would have also gone some way to redeeming Ellie in my eyes.

    That final fight I just wanted to give up.. The number of times I let Ellie get stabbed because I didn't want to fight, and I was so annoyed that she never really questioned Abby's motives and had some great realisation that they are basically two sides of the same coin.

    Edited by ZuluHero at 10:13:49 02-07-2020
  • ryan_isthisit 2 Jul 2020 10:13:21 28 posts
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    @Bichii
    Yeah, I have no idea why so many maniacs have been commenting on this particular game. But to give the gameplay 4/10 is an absolute embarrassment, variations in opinion aside. This game was quite clearly a masterpiece and I cannot imagine a better example example of a narrative driven action game being achieved, well, ever. Everything it set out to do, it did with absolute aplomb.

    I think that, as soon as Naughty Dog decided to do something that had literary ambitions, which this definitely does, they were going to alienate those without the ability to understand. This is the risk that any artist takes. They could have made a straightforward sequel and still raked in the cash, but they didnít. And good for them. For their risk, they have created a game that stands as one of the finest I have played, and certainly one of the best of this generation.

    Edited by ryan_isthisit at 10:17:00 02-07-2020

    Edited by ryan_isthisit at 10:18:13 02-07-2020
  • ZuluHero 2 Jul 2020 10:14:49 8,931 posts
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    Yeah guys, its clearly 5/10 for gameplay ;)
  • ryan_isthisit 2 Jul 2020 10:15:59 28 posts
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    Post deleted
  • ryan_isthisit 2 Jul 2020 10:16:00 28 posts
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  • ryan_isthisit 2 Jul 2020 10:16:04 28 posts
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    @DeadDeadpool
    You didnít play the game! Good lord, hundreds of people have given every ounce of themselves to create something that you are happy to critique without actually having experienced it.
  • Switch-v85 2 Jul 2020 10:29:57 3,915 posts
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    chopsen wrote:
    They could have easily cut back on the Abby bits.

    The protracted platforming to get to the bridge mostly didn't really add anything (yes I know there are parts which build the relationship with Lev but fuck me the rest can go and fuck itself).

    Alternatively do a flashback to when Abby meets Isaac, instead of ellie and the bloody dinosaurs.
    The walk across the bridge is a significant moment for all sorts of reasons. It builds their relationship and humanises Abby whilst also giving us more insight into how the Seraphites operate.

    Ellie and Joel at the museum is one of more uplifting bits of the game, it's also one of the few times it shows the father and daughter relationship they had before Ellie found out the truth and stopped speaking to him.

    Whilst the pacing might be an issue, this stuff is there for a reason and cutting it would do more harm than good.
  • chopsen 2 Jul 2020 11:11:29 21,045 posts
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    "The walk across the bridge is a significant moment for all sorts of reasons. It builds their relationship and humanises Abby whilst also giving us more insight into how the Seraphites operate.
    "

    Yeah, and I said as much. However, it's interspersed by some tedious platforming that outstayed it's welcome. Also that hotel bit was too long.

    It's actually the gameplay bits that I think should have been dropped.

    Also, Dinosaur land was over-long. It could have either been a proper cut scene, or have some actual engaging gameplay (i.e. not just "walk here and press triangle") but they opted not to. The father-daughter dynamic has in any case was already established in the first game....

    Edited by chopsen at 11:13:36 02-07-2020
  • Switch-v85 2 Jul 2020 11:21:29 3,915 posts
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    Yeah that's fair enough. That section is also immediately followed by the hospital so it's a long draw out section where the only bits of combat are against infected.

    I can understand the criticsm even if it's not where I fall on it.
  • Bichii 2 Jul 2020 11:29:09 3,179 posts
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    Yeah I do get most of the games criticism even if I don't agree with the majority of it.

    Without a doubt tlou is far better than tlou2 simply because of its story and pacing. It's tightly focused where this sequel tries to go grander in its scale. Reminds me a little of halo 2 after the sublime halo:ce. Not only did halo 2 try and go in deeper with its story and cutscenes it tried too hard to expand the universe and it even had the secret bait character switch! At least with Abby I was only mildly annoyed, when I took control of the arbiter I was really really pissed off :).

    Saying that I still think tlou2 is pretty much a 10/10 game.
  • PierrePressure 2 Jul 2020 11:48:40 1,113 posts
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    One nice touch the developers included was letting you know when you've cleared an area. The game is so tense, it's nice to know you can relax, if only for a little while!
  • ZuluHero 2 Jul 2020 12:32:28 8,931 posts
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    The museum bit was one of my favourites, there is actually quite a lot to do; "I'm standing on a fucking dinosaur!!" :D
  • chopsen 2 Jul 2020 12:39:46 21,045 posts
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    Yeah, it's a fantastic game. If anything, the stuff that's so impressive about make the bits which don't quite hit the mark for me all the note-worthy. It's all the sort of stuff I wouldn't think twice about in a less polished game with a less grand objective.
  • Derblington 2 Jul 2020 12:50:20 33,438 posts
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    I donít really think TLoU is more tightly paced at all. Itís still very long with all the same criticism as the sequel in terms of combat mechanics and pacing. It has a more straightforward narrative that is easier to follow because it flows more easily.
    It doesnít have the flashback sections but theyíre very subjective and donít seem to be a larger issue - I get some people donít like them because theyíre ďboringĒ but you get the opposite criticism for having too many cutscenes or non-interactive gameplay. I actually quite like them because theyíre a unique videogame method to deliver narrative that isnít relying on pure cinema, and They transition seamlessly into core gameplay. I like the moments they convey. Thereís actually a lot of them that can be skipped by just walking right through the environment and just interacting with the final prompts.

    The major difference is that the sequel is 2 independent stories that intersect at 3 points. Both halves are relatively well paced, itís only back-to-back that the problems occur because you reset and begin again. And arguably itís done a third time in Santa Barbara but that chapter is much shorter.
    The bigger problem occurs in that you need each half, and cutting entire sections away mean that you need to condense the narrative, which is fine in theory but harder when they need you to feel something for a character that you start off hating by intention, and you need Abby to be absent on her mission for Ellieís narrative to work. If you cut more of Ellieís game then you get criticism for that. Itís fairly complex. It could be done, for sure, itíd just be a very different overall game.

    From what Iíve read, the bulk of cut content was from Ellieís side - she had a chapter on the Seraphite island and hunting a boar on the farm. Early drafts of the game had 5 days per character instead of 3, but I havenít seen anything that suggested they actually built that.
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 2 Jul 2020 13:00:04 9,030 posts
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    @Derblington Nah, Ellie's story has serious pacing problems - no way around that. Too many flashbacks that go on for too long, breaking up the narrative at the wrong points. The dinosaur park sticks out like a sore thumb. It goes on for an hour and interrupts the narrative just as it was picking up pace. At least when MGS4 did hour-long cutscenes, you were guaranteed some entertainingly batshit-crazy stuff. In TLOU2, it just feels badly directed.

    Abby's section is much better. There's a big flashback at the start, but after that only a couple of very short dream/flashback sequences.

    The Santa Barbara stuff is fine as it goes, but Abby's section of it feels a bit rushed. I was left a bit unclear as to whether the Santa Barbara Fireflies actually existed, or whether the voice on the radio was just a trap set by the slavers.
  • creepiest-lizard 2 Jul 2020 13:04:44 1,428 posts
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    They're probably setting up DLC
  • Switch-v85 2 Jul 2020 13:16:47 3,915 posts
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    @Rogueywon You're obviously entitled to your opinion but I think Derbs is spot on with his post personally. I disagree with pretty much every point you've made there.
  • Derblington 2 Jul 2020 13:19:04 33,438 posts
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    @Rogueywon
    You feel those are pacing issues because you donít like what theyíre doing - you donít feel the same way about the characters as most others. You cite the dinosaur interaction as a major issue but itís not for the vast majority of people that are mentioning it - it seems to be a highlight. You donít like that gameplay, you donít like the characters, it causes specific problems for you.

    Most of the criticism in general seems to focus on Abbyís story - youíre very much the opposite. I think there are specific reasons for both perspectives mostly due to the characters and how players relate to each - that seems to be a key identifier in how people are responding to each half of the game.

    Edited by Derblington at 13:20:33 02-07-2020
  • Derblington 2 Jul 2020 13:23:15 33,438 posts
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    creepiest-lizard wrote:
    They're probably setting up DLC
    Theyíve said thereís no DLC planned.
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