The Last of Us 2 SPOILER DISCUSSION. Page 8

  • Derblington 4 Jul 2020 10:16:56 33,438 posts
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    It’s not really telling you how violence is bad, that’s very surface level and something that everybody already knows. The things it deals with are alongside and past that.
    But yeah, it’s not comfortable for a lot of people and they knew that. Before all the leaks occurred they knew that a lot of people wouldn’t get a long with the different elements of it.

    It’s really interesting how people fall with it though, whether the things they’ve tried to do work for players or not.
  • JamboWayOh 4 Jul 2020 10:41:42 20,059 posts
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    I found the later scenes very uncomfortable, which I believe was the intention but ultimately I found the story to be that opening your heart to forgiveness and empathy are important, especially in today's times. I think to call the game 'violence is bad' is a very reductive argument which a few publications have focused on lazily. I mean it's right there when Ellie has that final flashback of Joel
  • neems 4 Jul 2020 10:59:43 4,861 posts
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    I feel that the interactivity in that scene achieves nothing other than making a disconnect between the gameplay and the player. It's a bit like 'No Russian' in MW2, except you could skip that (or even just not take part, although I doubt that was intentional).

    Fairplay, if Naughty Dog's intention was to make me hate playing that scene then job done I guess? I just don't see it as meaningful.
  • waggy79 4 Jul 2020 11:06:38 2,302 posts
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    @neems I agree. In retrospect, a couple of scenes that would obviously split the player base depending on who you're rooting for would have been more powerful as a cut scene. Sometimes just sitting back and taking in every detail is more immersive while taking away control ironically.

    Edited by waggy79 at 11:07:16 04-07-2020
  • Mark1412 4 Jul 2020 11:56:58 1,770 posts
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    It's been mentioned before in here I think but it's starker to me now I've come to the end of Ellie's half on a second playthrough - Ellie's motives, intentions and actions are fucked. Abby's are a lot more relatable.
  • ZuluHero 4 Jul 2020 12:17:15 8,931 posts
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    JamboWayOh wrote:
    I found the later scenes very uncomfortable, which I believe was the intention but ultimately I found the story to be that opening your heart to forgiveness and empathy are important, especially in today's times. I think to call the game 'violence is bad' is a very reductive argument which a few publications have focused on lazily. I mean it's right there when Ellie has that final flashback of Joel
    They could have flashed that Joel scene as the camera panned out from Ellie's dead-eyed face as a single tear rolled down her cheak revealling that she'd been stabbed to death in the final fight.

    Abby could just look down at her with nothing but pity, after giving her so many chances, a testiment that all consuming hated and the need for revenge ultimately leads to your downfall.

    Then it could go all Omega man, and show her blood entertaining a water course, hinting that her immunity is entering the drinking water ;)
  • JoelStinty 4 Jul 2020 12:32:18 8,927 posts
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    neems wrote:
    I feel that the interactivity in that scene achieves nothing other than making a disconnect between the gameplay and the player. It's a bit like 'No Russian' in MW2, except you could skip that (or even just not take part, although I doubt that was intentional).

    Fairplay, if Naughty Dog's intention was to make me hate playing that scene then job done I guess? I just don't see it as meaningful.
    But it has achieved something because you didn’t want to do it. Its provoked a physical and emotional reaction. I said earlier in the thread it be Interesting to know how many people stopped pressing square at that point. I don’t think it detracts from the narrative or experience either, for me it consolidated the intention the developers had; in making you emphasise for a character that people hated at the beginning but also hoping Ellie would come to her senses. I was waiting for that moment because the symmetry you see through the game tells you Ellie should have that moment. Ellie at the end of the game is where Abby was at the beginning.
  • Switch-v85 4 Jul 2020 12:41:13 3,915 posts
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    Mark1412 wrote:
    It's been mentioned before in here I think but it's starker to me now I've come to the end of Ellie's half on a second playthrough - Ellie's motives, intentions and actions are fucked. Abby's are a lot more relatable.
    Ellie is consumed by grief and rage when we play as her, she’s singleminded in her pursuit of revenge. So much so that’s she blind to what she’s losing in the process.

    Abby had similar motives and intentions, she lost Owen because of it. We mostly see her after she’s had her revenge, so she’s further along her journey and is working towards redemption.

    Abby got lucky stumbling into Joel the way she did, the reason she’s out there in the first place is because she’s looking for someone from Jackson to get information. She was definitely prepared to do her fair of bad shit to get to Joel.
  • ZuluHero 4 Jul 2020 13:01:33 8,931 posts
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    Yeah, Abby had like 6 years to come to terms with it, and she killed Joel in that horrible way.
  • MrWonderstuff 4 Jul 2020 14:21:20 3,304 posts
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    Post deleted
  • Jono62 5 Jul 2020 01:12:51 25,385 posts
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    Sigh

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2020/07/04/the-last-us-part-2s-laura-bailey-getting-death-threats-over-abby-role/amp/
  • gammonbanter 5 Jul 2020 02:10:38 1,968 posts
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    Jono62 wrote:
    Sigh

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2020/07/04/the-last-us-part-2s-laura-bailey-getting-death-threats-over-abby-role/amp/
    Bloody idiots!

    Wow, so glad to be here after some 20+ hours! It is just one arena to the next! I liked the cut scenes, and the whole story premise, but the fights against the infected became such a slog!

    And what takes you out of a game / world more than constantly bumping your character up against walls looking for supplies - there must be a better way.

    Those shivs for Abby were a must.


    Was it me or Ellie's pump action shotgun was waaaay more fun to use!? That one mechanic alone made me guffaw every time!
  • SnackPlissken 5 Jul 2020 13:56:03 1,963 posts
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    For me personally I didn’t think the narrative worked as a game. Perhaps a film, but not a game. I have a complete disconnect from both characters. I cared initially with the motive for both Abby and Ellie.. then it’s like another 10/14 hours of just constant screwing with me as the player so in the end I just had enough.
  • Switch-v85 5 Jul 2020 14:06:21 3,915 posts
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    This type of narrative can only work in a game. It's what makes it so good. It's because you're playing as these characters that the game has such an impact and brings about these extreme reactions.
  • Scimarad 5 Jul 2020 16:09:00 9,756 posts
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    I think that approach varies dramatically in effectiveness based on tastes of the player. It seems like a good story but I don't really get why the interactivity of it enhances that story considering you don't have say in the most important bits. That would just piss me off and make the whole thing feel tiresome in way that it wouldn't if I was watching the same thing as a film. I'd probably hate the very bits that you love.
  • Switch-v85 5 Jul 2020 17:02:26 3,915 posts
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    @Scimarad Have you played it? I can’t tell from your post but if not I really think you need to experience it. Clearly it’s divisive but it’s a game that’s deliberately challenging the player.

    I didn’t always love the things that the game made me do but I absolutely loved that it was able to make me feel so conflicted about it. It’s an emotional rollercoaster and that’s enhanced by being in control at key points. If you take that control away then you’re diluting the experience.

    Edited by Switch024 at 17:07:38 05-07-2020
  • gammonbanter 5 Jul 2020 19:33:25 1,968 posts
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    I was absolutely sure that at some point towards the end I was going to have to make a decision and pick a side! I was going to pick Abby because her story had some kind of redemption, where as not only did Ellie's not, she was actively putting her friends in danger, taking advantage of them, when she found out Dina was pregnant they should have gone home!

    Even Abby's hideous murder of Joel was backed by the former fireflies on the mission, they wanted blood too!

    Having said that I still want to see a happy ending for Ellie and all of them! Can they make this franchise less fucking depressing please!?

    Who were the Rattlers by the way, what was their post apocalyptic kink, why did they have prisoners?

    Also, was the boat on the beach significant at the end, had Abby and Lev found the Fireflies?

    Edited by gammonbanter at 19:38:22 05-07-2020

    Edited by gammonbanter at 19:39:02 05-07-2020
  • JamboWayOh 5 Jul 2020 19:37:33 20,059 posts
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    Yeah it's implied they found the Fireflies in Catalina because the dome building is in the background. The Rattlers were just a named group of hunters, their MO was using slaves to work on their own crop land and whatnot.
  • ZuluHero 5 Jul 2020 19:38:03 8,931 posts
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    Tbh it was great letting the chained up infected loose and letting them run amok in the camps.

    There were a couple of instances before that with both human and infected enemies, like the hospital basement and the Subway Station, where you could lure infected by throwing a bottle, but few and far between.
  • PazJohnMitch 5 Jul 2020 19:42:34 16,008 posts
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    Switch024 wrote:
    Mark1412 wrote:
    It's been mentioned before in here I think but it's starker to me now I've come to the end of Ellie's half on a second playthrough - Ellie's motives, intentions and actions are fucked. Abby's are a lot more relatable.
    Ellie is consumed by grief and rage when we play as her, she’s singleminded in her pursuit of revenge. So much so that’s she blind to what she’s losing in the process.

    Abby had similar motives and intentions, she lost Owen because of it. We mostly see her after she’s had her revenge, so she’s further along her journey and is working towards redemption.

    Abby got lucky stumbling into Joel the way she did, the reason she’s out there in the first place is because she’s looking for someone from Jackson to get information. She was definitely prepared to do her fair of bad shit to get to Joel.
    I thought she went to Jackson because she got a lead that Tommy was there. She intended to “quiz” Tommy about Joel.
  • PazJohnMitch 5 Jul 2020 19:43:52 16,008 posts
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    ZuluHero wrote:
    Tbh it was great letting the chained up infected loose and letting them run amok in the camps.

    There were a couple of instances before that with both human and infected enemies, like the hospital basement and the Subway Station, where you could lure infected by throwing a bottle, but few and far between.
    I got one of the guards in a headlock and walked them into a chained up infected.
  • Switch-v85 5 Jul 2020 20:02:53 3,915 posts
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    @PazJohnMitch Yeah that’s right, Owen tells her Tommy is there in one of the flashbacks. When you first take control of her though she’s looking for anyone from Jackson so she can get information and immediately stumbles into Joel.
  • deez 5 Jul 2020 23:45:38 302 posts
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    Yeah it's quite a game, brutal and a pretty sad ending all round.

    Can I see a completion% of collectibles anywhere? Interested to see what safes /cards I missed (coins can do one)
  • Switch-v85 5 Jul 2020 23:48:21 3,915 posts
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    @deez Chapter select. It gives you a fairly decent breakdown.
  • gammonbanter 6 Jul 2020 09:57:20 1,968 posts
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    So thinking about it too much, in lieu of not playing it anymore now that I'm done! That 'Scar' village was a massive liability, being made of wood and all! I can't help but think a few WLF soldiers could have set fire to it a long time ago?!
  • Bichii 6 Jul 2020 10:10:06 3,179 posts
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    Yeah that would be so easy to get on the island unnoticed, sneak into town, set fire to all the various buildings not being noticed with the large amount of flammable supplies you'd need to actually set large wooden structures alight. I mean it's not like there aren't 1000 or so scars living there.

    Edited by Bichii at 10:10:52 06-07-2020
  • PazJohnMitch 6 Jul 2020 10:34:34 16,008 posts
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    Part 3 plot predictions as started from other thread:

    Ellie sacrificing herself does seem fitting but I cannot see how you tell that story with the current gameplay mechanics. (With Ellie as the lead).

    It could easily become the initiation point of the third story though. Ellie sacrifices herself to make the cure and then rival factions fight over the cure with an overtone of fucked up politics and religion which leads to widespread discrimination.
  • Switch-v85 6 Jul 2020 10:49:13 3,915 posts
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    I kind of feel like Ellie sacrificing herself is too obvious. Can definitely see it being a part of the story but I don't think it'll actually happen.
  • Daeltaja 6 Jul 2020 11:11:48 1,807 posts
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    gammonbanter wrote:

    Also, was the boat on the beach significant at the end, had Abby and Lev found the Fireflies?

    Edited by gammonbanter at 19:38:22 05-07-2020
    Certainly implies that they found the location they believed the Fireflies to be at. No idea how, mind, given how badly Abby was cut up!
  • Bichii 6 Jul 2020 11:32:46 3,179 posts
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    Abby already knew the location of the base, it wasn't far down the coast from where they were. Plus it is the round building from the radio conversation as confirmed by Neil himself. Cuts? Minor inconvenience in this universe as seen through out the game, these women can endure blood loss like no other.
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