The Last of Us 2 SPOILER DISCUSSION. Page 2

  • Derblington 27 Jun 2020 20:12:44 33,149 posts
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    The rat king really reminded me of Resident Evil. Not just the fact is was a big mutated monster, but moving around the hospital, having to repower everything, and the narrative framing with the doors and the blood trails, etc.
    While I’m not massively keen on the fight itself (though I thought the 2nd part was better) I really enjoyed the whole sequence.
  • Toasty 27 Jun 2020 20:17:32 7 posts
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    yeh the build up was great, i just hate using ammo. In survival horror games i always get way to conservative with resources and end up finishing the game with enough ammo to kill the final boss twice.
  • eshy76 27 Jun 2020 21:53:45 187 posts
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    Derblington wrote:
    Well no. It suggests the correct ending is the one in the game - both Neil and Ashley responded that they didn’t know where she was going, but the other ending made it seem very obvious where she intended to go.
    Yes sorry - "correct" was the wrong word for the JJ toy ending..."default" maybe? In any case I agree the "correct" version is the one we got...where we don't really know.
  • Bichii 28 Jun 2020 00:30:20 3,092 posts
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    Okay finished the whole kinda funny games cast.

    1) factions is coming....
    YAY!

    2) Neil confirms it's the firefly base on the final menu screen and hints about the reasoning behind the brighter, happier colours. So I'll take that as 100% happy ending for Abby and Lev. :)
  • kirinnokoshin 28 Jun 2020 00:34:08 71 posts
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    Just completed it.

    Technically it is peerless on PS4 aside from RDR2. The combat and stealth is improved over the first game and I appreciated that they took some risks with the narrative. A straight repeat of the originals’ plot structure would have deprived the sequel of its uniqueness. In addition the graphic violence while excessive, is never out of step with the games overarching themes of the ugliness of self gratification at all costs.

    On the downside it only offers a few new gameplay ideas over the original, is overlong and padded out with far too many consecutive enemy encounters and large areas that take too long to scavenge for supplies. I appreciate that much of this is to facilitate naughty dogs penchant for virtual tourism and to assist visual storytelling, but I found the volume in this game exhausting which frequently dulled the pacing. It has ‘more’ of everything (just like Uncharted 4 did over its prequels) but more content didn’t make for a fuller experience.

    On the story, as I mentioned earlier I liked the structure and the fact that it attempts to tackle more complex themes than the original. This is helped no end by the voice acting and cutscenes that thanks to the technology are the most evocative and convincing I’ve ever witnessed in a video game. On the downside there are very long stretches where the narrative goes nowhere, some highly questionable character motivations driving key plot points and the overall bloat and expanded cast of characters denies it the type of sustained, intimate relationship that first game delivered so skilfully. I was also extremely disappointed in the stories’ conclusion and was anticipating something far more unexpected and thought provoking that what was served up.

    I think it’s a bigger but ultimately lesser experience than the first game, it reminds me a bit of Bioshock Infinite in that regard. It succeeds in delivering the message that human morality is rarely black and white through its narrative but it didn’t succeed in delivering the same message through its gameplay. I never felt guilty as player for the violence that was unfolding on screen because I never had a choice in the matter. Rather I felt more like a sorry observer of these desperate, myopic characters frantically blaze a trail of blood in a bid to survive a cruel world.
  • DeadDeadpool 28 Jun 2020 07:51:05 48 posts
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    While I have been less than impressed with the concept of the game jumping back in the time from to time, nothing brings the player down quite like the moment the game decides to jump to a moment in time that sees the player play the part of Abby: Day 1 - Seattle. It fills like the game in starting over from scratch. Day 1 goes on for a long time. I have to admit, by the time Day 2 arrives, it becomes apparent, the Abby section is a much better game to play than the Ellie section, as there is more to do other than explore empty rooms with draws to open.

    Abby on the bridge.
  • Frogofdoom 28 Jun 2020 07:54:43 16,433 posts
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    Dude, what you are doing is really weird. I'm not sure anyone is looking for a commentary on a game that the person hasn't played.
  • DeadDeadpool 28 Jun 2020 08:56:05 48 posts
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    Frogofdoom wrote:
    Dude, what you are doing is really weird. I'm not sure anyone is looking for a commentary on a game that the person hasn't played.
    Nothing weird about watching a game. It has been somewhat entertaining.
    I love seeing all the locations, finding out what the story is about. Fact is, i'm too lazy to play it.

    If anyone else is interested in watching, i recommend theRadBrad.

    Part 1 has 3.1 million views so far. Many people are watching.

    THE LAST OF US 2 Walkthrough Gameplay Part 1 - INTRO (Last of Us Part 2)
    https://youtu.be/810fupKfabE

    Edited by DeadDeadpool at 08:57:02 28-06-2020
  • Frogofdoom 28 Jun 2020 08:57:35 16,433 posts
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    It is fine to watch it, what is really weird is that you are writing a commentary on it.
  • DeadDeadpool 28 Jun 2020 09:13:54 48 posts
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    Frogofdoom wrote:
    It is fine to watch it, what is really weird is that you are writing a commentary on it.
    Just sharing my views. Isn't that what forums are for?
  • Frogofdoom 28 Jun 2020 09:18:38 16,433 posts
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    For sharing views on games that you have played yes. Trying to discuss the game with people that are playing it is weird because you miss key elements of the experience.

    I guarantee you, I'm not the only person finding it weird. In fact I would suggest more of us find it strange than find it normal.

    Edited by Frogofdoom at 09:19:39 28-06-2020
  • [maven] 28 Jun 2020 09:40:32 5,669 posts
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    Another interesting interview with Neil Druckmann and Halley Gross: https://www.indiewire.com/2020/06/the-last-of-us-part-ii-interview-neil-druckmann-halley-gross-spoilers-1234568597/

    I found the part about why Ellie leaves the Farm (particularly the answer from Gross) is pretty much how it landed for me, so major props.

    (I'm also pretty glad I avoided all the leaks.)
  • Frogofdoom 28 Jun 2020 09:42:55 16,433 posts
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    Yeah I managed to avoid them all as well. I think the only thing I watched was Ellie in the car park fight and the cut scene where she is at the party. Apart from that I went in blind as I wanted to get the freshest experience possible.
  • Switch024 28 Jun 2020 09:54:43 3,746 posts
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    Actually playing the game yourself is essential to the experience. I can't think of a worse game to watch someone else play, sure you're getting to see the story but there's no way you're as invested in it.

    The moment the game changed to Abby proper, I was more than conflicted about it, I flat out did not want to play the game as her. It wasn't about starting over again, I'd properly grown to hate this character. It took a few sessions and seeing Abby devlop as a character before I started to come around.
  • Frogofdoom 28 Jun 2020 10:00:44 16,433 posts
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    I was exactly the same, I was royally pissed off at first but it was a massive gamble that paid off brilliantly in the end. I really wanted Ellie to stop in the water which I didnt think I would have been saying for a long long way through the game.

    The devs pretty much played me perfectly for how they wanted me to react through the game.

    Edited by Frogofdoom at 10:01:21 28-06-2020
  • ozthegweat 28 Jun 2020 11:42:15 2,500 posts
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    I got spoiled that an important character died a few hours in, so I was pretty sure that it was gonna be Joel. I feared that my enjoyment would be negatively impacted by that knowledge, but instead heightened the feeling of dread in the leadup to that scene, which fit the overall tone well.
  • Derblington 28 Jun 2020 11:45:35 33,149 posts
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    I thought it was obvious Joel was going to die from the recent State of Play. I didn’t initially watch it and then someone here mentioned it had no spoilers, and about a minute in I’d figured it out :(

    Other than that I knew nothing though.
  • ozthegweat 28 Jun 2020 12:24:28 2,500 posts
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    From the trailer I thought Dina was the one to die in that scene.

    Come to think of it, the scene from the very first trailer (Ellie playing guitar, Joel walking in and she telling her she's gonna kill every last one of them or something) wasn't in the game at all.
  • Mark1412 28 Jun 2020 12:28:41 1,725 posts
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    They said in that video from the previous page that they changed lots of the scenes to throw people off in the trailers.

    I also absolutely hated the idea of playing Abbie as soon as it switched mid-game, but it's testament to the quality of writing, story, voice acting and facial capture that I kept trying to stop the fight by not taking part in the water at the end. I desperately didn't want her to die and would have been raging if they'd forced you to kill Abby.
  • Bichii 28 Jun 2020 12:35:51 3,092 posts
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    ozthegweat wrote:
    From the trailer I thought Dina was the one to die in that scene.

    Come to think of it, the scene from the very first trailer (Ellie playing guitar, Joel walking in and she telling her she's gonna kill every last one of them or something) wasn't in the game at all.
    I remember saying on here straight after that first trailer was released that the way the trailer played Joel was dead and Ellie was imagining him. The way he walks into the building surrounded by white light and how he talks to her. He is implying she is taking it too far and I got that from the final flash back that stops her killing Abby. Ellie seeing Joel in that final moment she finally realised.
  • waggy79 28 Jun 2020 13:12:03 2,258 posts
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    I couldn't stand Abby from the start and really wanted her to die. Didnt enjoy playing as her either. Obviously knew she wouldn't as everyone and his dog is spoiling the game on every available social media channel.
    Just a very unfulfilled experience for me. Adored the first game but this was depressing on another level.
    Maybe I played the original too many times but this really dragged for me and wish I hadn't gone digital.
  • JamboWayOh 28 Jun 2020 19:57:18 19,356 posts
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    I'm definitely on the side of first hating the switch to Abby because in my mind I had built her up as this big bad which I suppose was the intention to get you into Ellie's mindset. By the end I didn't want either of them to die and the fight at the end I just felt so conflicted because it would have been horrible if you ended up killing Abby. It's a powerful game and the last cutscene with Joel, I won't lie it definitely got to me.

    Just to add I'm not sure how you can feel any of the feelings I had playing this game if you're watching somebody play it on YouTube. To reiterate, IT'S FUCKING WEIRD.
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 28 Jun 2020 20:16:06 8,695 posts
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    Finished now. Think my reactions to the story were a bit different to some here. I didn't mind the switch to Abby at all when it happened. Admittedly, I'd known it was coming from having been spoilered, but she hadn't actually done anything to make me hate her.

    This is where my views on the first game probably come into play. I really, really hated Joel's actions at the end. They weren't just murder - they were tantamount to genocide. He might have twinkly eyes and an acoustic guitar, but he's still basically Pol Pot and he deserved everything he had coming to him. Ellie's revenge quest always felt a bit oddly forced to me. Surely she could have understood why some people might not have had the warm and fuzzies towards him?

    Abby, on the other hand, was a much more relatable protagonist. She's a functional part of what seems like one of the less-shitty societies in this world. She took a sabbatical to go murder Mr. Genocide, then cops for the consequences of it big time. She had more of a natural-seeming rapport with her ex-Firefly friends than Ellie had with any of her companions.

    By the end, all the game had really done was re-confirm how I felt about the ending of the first game. Joel fucked over the world to save Ellie and she turned into... that?

    And yeah, the youtube thing is weird.
  • Derblington 28 Jun 2020 20:25:38 33,149 posts
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    Ellie knew why Joel died, of course she understood - she had her own issues with him around it. But she loved him, and he was taken from her, and she felt guilt about her situation with him.

    If you can understand Abby you can understand Ellie.

    I think everyone agrees that Joel’s actions at the end of the first were wrong, but you understand why he did that too. He knew why he was dying, he told them to get it over with.
  • Jono62 28 Jun 2020 20:27:27 25,062 posts
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    The YouTube watching guy has a writing style similar to DVD cover man.
  • waggy79 28 Jun 2020 20:32:32 2,258 posts
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    No I dont agree Joel's actions were wrong as people you know mean more than people you dont.
    Exactly why Abbys dad in his silence confirms he couldn't do it if put in the same situation.
    Very easy to take the moral high ground until you're put in their shoes.
  • chopsen 28 Jun 2020 20:34:53 20,995 posts
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    I just don't "buy" Abby's arc.

    She was up for slitting the throat of pregnant wossname till she gets caught by Scar Kid which made her re-evaluate herself. (edit: and this pivot was somehow predictably inevitable, but also somehow seemed just so convenient).

    It was also a bit convenient that she decided to start siding with the two Scars for not especially good reasons.

    And quite happy to start shooting up the WLF's at a moment's notice as ewll.

    By the end, when she no longer wants to fight Ellie, her journey to that point is entirely "off camera."

    Edited by chopsen at 20:37:14 28-06-2020
  • Derblington 28 Jun 2020 20:43:04 33,149 posts
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    Abby’s intent with Dina was very much ‘eye for an eye’. The entire reason she’d chased down Ellie was rage and vengeance as Ellie and Tommy had just murdered all of her friends when they had all decided that the WLF were fucked and they were off to find something better for themselves.
    Helping Yara and Lev was a result of that stuff too. That’s all very much “on camera”.
  • Derblington 28 Jun 2020 20:46:20 33,149 posts
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    waggy79 wrote:
    No I dont agree Joel's actions were wrong as people you know mean more than people you dont.
    Exactly why Abbys dad in his silence confirms he couldn't do it if put in the same situation.
    Very easy to take the moral high ground until you're put in their shoes.
    That doesn’t change the fact that the greater good is letting Ellie save humanity. We can understand why Joel did what he did but also see the fault in it. Not just in his selfishness of “saving” Ellie - who was entirely down for what was going on, she’d travelled across the country for a year for that sole purpose - but in then murdering a hospital full of people to do it.

    And it’s not people he didn’t know. The choice he made affected everyone alive and yet to be born, including his brother, his brother’s wife, and everyone he knew from Boston and would get to know and help in Jackson.

    Edited by Derblington at 20:47:54 28-06-2020
  • waggy79 28 Jun 2020 20:48:55 2,258 posts
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    Humanity was never doomed. Jacksonville and many other places prove life will go on. Killing people in the hospital or anywhere else was kill or be killed.
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