The Last of Us 2 SPOILER DISCUSSION. Page 3

  • Mark1412 28 Jun 2020 20:53:43 1,811 posts
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    The difference was with the scientists at the end. That wasn't kill or be killed. Which is what set up TLOU2. He could have left the scientists alive.

    I think one of the reasons I found the end to the first game so powerful is I believed 100% in what Joel did. It doesn't matter how many people it could save, there's no way I could willingly let somebody kill my child whether they wanted it or not, despite knowing the maths.

    Edited by Mark1412 at 20:54:31 28-06-2020
  • Derblington 28 Jun 2020 20:54:05 33,884 posts
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    Life struggles to go on. He could have made it easier for all of them by not being selfish. Again, Ellie was on board, he did it because he couldnít let her go.
    Itís a morality question, sure, but itís fairly obvious what the ďrightĒ thing to do is when itís one versus millions. That doesnít make it easy.

    And the hospital wasnít survival - they were escorting him out, he killed Ethan In order to get his weapons and then went back in to murder the rest, including the surgeon and Marlene.
  • waggy79 28 Jun 2020 20:54:31 2,324 posts
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    1 doctor who wouldn't allow him to take her. The other 2 were player choice.
  • chopsen 28 Jun 2020 20:56:02 21,185 posts
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    Well, the "right" thing to do would be to wake her up and discuss with both of them the implications of the procedure, not put her under and then go "whoopsie, forgot to say we need fuck her brain up as a part of the processes."

    Medical ethics 101 that one.
  • Derblington 28 Jun 2020 20:56:05 33,884 posts
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    He had no right to take her. She wasnít his daughter, she was his job. She wanted to cure the world.

    Edited by Derblington at 20:56:30 28-06-2020
  • waggy79 28 Jun 2020 20:57:19 2,324 posts
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    Ellie actually didnt know the 'cure' meant taking part of her brain at the time so he wouldn't know she was on board til after.
  • Derblington 28 Jun 2020 20:57:31 33,884 posts
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    Well you know from Part 2 what her reaction would have been. She says to him that her purpose was to die in that hospital.
  • chopsen 28 Jun 2020 20:58:20 21,185 posts
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    Except obviously he wouldn't and didn't feel like that, as she was a surrogate for the daughter he'd lost and the relationship between them had grown.
  • waggy79 28 Jun 2020 20:58:24 2,324 posts
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    She was much more than a job by that point after what they'd been through together.
  • Derblington 28 Jun 2020 21:02:03 33,884 posts
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    He was attached, but that doesnít change the facts.

    Again, itís totally understandable why he did it but it doesnít make it right. Thatís the while point of the end of the first game, itís why he lies directly to her about it, why sheís pissed with him when she finds out the truth, and why heís beaten to death as a result.
  • Bichii 28 Jun 2020 21:13:15 3,451 posts
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    Yeah no way, if it was my daughter's life to save you lot then you're all dead! Not even a choice :)
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 28 Jun 2020 21:24:05 9,333 posts
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    Bichii wrote:
    Yeah no way, if it was my daughter's life to save you lot then you're all dead! Not even a choice :)
    Which is fine. But don't complain when I track you down across the country five years later and beat you to death with a golf club.

    Though to be honest, I'd probably pick a better blunt instrument. A golf club's kinda lame. Baseball bat with a nail in it, maybe.
  • Frogofdoom 28 Jun 2020 21:27:39 16,878 posts
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    I dont know, the golf club is quite dramatic when you see a tuft of Joel's head fly up.

    Edited by Frogofdoom at 21:27:49 28-06-2020
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 28 Jun 2020 21:30:20 9,333 posts
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    My dad would cry at that scene.

    It looks like the club gets all bent.
  • Tuffty 29 Jun 2020 07:48:15 4,620 posts
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    The museum sequence was really well done I thought but did they really have to show a Firefly logo with LIARS underneath it? Like it should be enough to just show the logo.
  • sid92 29 Jun 2020 14:10:13 3,583 posts
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    I personally would have liked a choice at the end to kill or not kill Abby, even if killing her gave me a ďbadĒ ending.
  • waggy79 29 Jun 2020 15:14:03 2,324 posts
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    @sid92 I would too but if these characters feature in a part 3 it would make things difficult.
  • ozthegweat 29 Jun 2020 15:16:46 2,603 posts
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    Choose your ow(e)n adventure is not Naughty Dog's style. They have a story to tell and they tell it. I respect them for that and wouldn't have it any other way.
  • DUFFMAN5 29 Jun 2020 16:07:14 26,163 posts
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    sid92 wrote:
    I personally would have liked a choice at the end to kill or not kill Abby, even if killing her gave me a ďbadĒ ending.
    I let Ellie kill me (Abbs/Guns) several times, so I win :)
  • sid92 29 Jun 2020 16:21:29 3,583 posts
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    @waggy79 Yeah but they could just have Ellie letting her live be the canon if they ever made another.
  • sid92 29 Jun 2020 16:21:54 3,583 posts
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    DUFFMAN5 wrote:
    sid92 wrote:
    I personally would have liked a choice at the end to kill or not kill Abby, even if killing her gave me a ďbadĒ ending.
    I let Ellie kill me (Abbs/Guns) several times, so I win :)
    I guess thatís one way of doing it :)
  • sid92 29 Jun 2020 16:24:46 3,583 posts
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    The thing is the moment felt like one that should have a massive player choice, I was expecting there to be choice but itís just never came.

    All that conflict between the two all game could have come down to one big, heartbreaking, easy (depending on your views) choice.
  • Derblington 29 Jun 2020 17:18:01 33,884 posts
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    I donít know, it was Ellieís redemption. Taking that away she would be just be a monster and lost herself.

    I didnít ever expect it to be player choice because itís not their thing but I wasnít entirely sure how it was going to play out.
  • Scimarad 29 Jun 2020 17:31:00 9,806 posts
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    I think the real mistake Joel made at the end of the first game was not coming up with a much more convincing lie :)
  • eshy76 29 Jun 2020 18:14:31 190 posts
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    Scimarad wrote:
    I think the real mistake Joel made at the end of the first game was not coming up with a much more convincing lie :)
    "They took some of your brain tissue and are using it to make a cure. Might take a few years with all the testing and whatnot".

    "Where's Marlene?"

    "She, er, needed, er, to take, er, some time off?"

    ".....ok"
  • Daeltaja 29 Jun 2020 19:47:49 1,825 posts
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    Even with Ellie dead and a piece of her brain there was no garauntee of a vaccine.
  • Bichii 29 Jun 2020 22:08:23 3,451 posts
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    Just finished the hotel section where you fight a bloater as Ellie with Joel. Such a selfish bastard :). Ellie questioning about the firefly's and Joel deflects and turns it on Ellie to try and make her feel bad, monster!

    Love that whole level.
  • waggy79 29 Jun 2020 22:11:42 2,324 posts
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    Yeah he should've been mr nice guy and have her killed. What an asshole lol.
  • Rusty_M 29 Jun 2020 23:17:37 7,171 posts
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    Frogofdoom wrote:
    I dont know, the golf club is quite dramatic when you see a tuft of Joel's head fly up.
    Nobody ever sorts out their divots
  • JamboWayOh 29 Jun 2020 23:18:06 20,717 posts
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    Daeltaja wrote:
    Even with Ellie dead and a piece of her brain there was no garauntee of a vaccine.
    More importantly the humanity that has survived doesn't seem worth saving in that particular universe.
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