Following Mass Effect: Legendary Edition Page 5

  • JoeBlade 5 Dec 2020 12:23:56 6,036 posts
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    simpleexplodingmaybe wrote:
    My main issue with binary morality in games like Mass Effect and KOTOR (lets face it ones a continuation the other) is that one of them is clearly the ‘correct’ path and the other a bit of a novelty.
    I don't quite agree with KotOR: you can either be reinstated as a Jedi (master) - big whoop - or become the new Sith overlord with the Star Forge and consequently the biggest military fleet in the known galaxy at your disposal. KotOR 2 even assumes the player went for the dark side option in the previous game.

    But it's true there's very little moral ambiguity, I thought KotOR 2 was a lot better in that regard.
    And neither offers a clearly ambiguous or neutral ending but there are very few games that do. And I don't mean games with only one ending that happens to be neutral but multiple endings including neutral ones. While I've not played it myself I gather Beyond: Two Souls offers several endings with a wide range of morality (including a few bonkers ones apparently)
  • TechnoHippy 5 Dec 2020 12:27:03 19,011 posts
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    All too often the 'evil' choices are just being a twat, rather than actually evil.
  • Mola_Ram 5 Dec 2020 12:34:52 25,715 posts
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    I kind of blame D&D games for this, with their rigid alignment system.

    Like Baldur's Gate, where it's apparently evil to ask to be paid for the stuff you do, and the actual evil stuff is mostly limited to going around slaughtering people like a complete psychopath. Which makes the game impossible to play, because stores increase their prices for you, bounty hunters start chasing you, and you lose more reputation for defending yourself from them. The only plus is being able to keep evil party members (who are pretty great tbf).

    Games have gotten a lot better at this kind of thing. But nuance requires good writing and quest design, and a lot of games still do not seem to prioritise those things.

    Edited by Mola_Ram at 12:40:58 05-12-2020
  • StarchildHypocrethes 5 Dec 2020 13:06:16 33,762 posts
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    simpleexplodingmaybe wrote:
    My main issue with binary morality in games like Mass Effect and KOTOR (lets face it ones a continuation the other) is that one of them is clearly the ‘correct’ path and the other a bit of a novelty.
    I don't necessarily agree with that. From a Mass Effect standpoint there is no "correct" way really. You can either be goody goody Space Jesus and save the day whilst being dull, caring and compassionate, or you can be Space Jack Bauer and save the day whatever it takes, whilst also making mankind top dog. The outcome is still the same, the methods of getting there just differ.

    Edited by StarchildHypocrethes at 13:06:38 05-12-2020
  • Deleted user 5 December 2020 13:48:47
    @Mola_Ram I get your point.

    I generally factor out the alignment system in the D & D games that I run. I just find it unnecessary and, as you say, too rigid.

    In Baldur's Gate II I once BRIEFLY tried playing as an evil character and hated absolutely every second of it. It really contributed towards the way I play video games to this day - I strongly dislike playing evil characters or taking the "renegade" action or dialogue, and I won't play games that try to force me down such a route.
  • Deleted user 7 December 2020 18:53:03
    Beginning of ME3. Opening crawl. "this idyllic future is overshadowed by a dark past". Idyllic future? WTF are you talking about? Have you played ME2 or even ME1?

    "the Reapers cleanse the galaxy of all organic life every 50,000 years" WTF are you talking about? Are you suggesting we evolved from monads to humans in just 50,000 years? What?

    "We fight... or we die!" Yeah fighting worked out really well for the Protheans. Shoot bullets at the Reapers, that's going to slow them down. Jesus WTF

    Trying to get you emotionally involved. Look, there's a little boy with large eyes. And he's killed. BE EMOTIONALLY INVOLVED DAMMIT. What's the cheapest possible imaginable way to get you emotionally involved? Yeah, let a child with large eyes die. I...

    I use to criticise ME1/2 for what they do wrong, but seriously wtf this is no joke, I can't take a second of ME3 without gallons of booze. It is that laughable. I... Jesus Christ WTF ARGHHGAHRHERTHTSAHYTJHN
  • Samildanach 7 Dec 2020 19:28:36 598 posts
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    @DrStrangelove
    I gather the Reapers would only cleanse advanced technologies every 50,000 years, though that obviously was poorly described in the intro.

    The Kid, yeah. Mass Effect at its worst (in terms of plot writing). Perhaps the only redeeming feature of his inclusion is that it does give the opportunity for a few interesting theories. I'll let you play it before I give anything more away.
  • Deleted user 7 December 2020 19:38:10
    Samildanach wrote:
    @DrStrangelove
    I gather the Reapers would only cleanse advanced technologies every 50,000 years, though that obviously was poorly described in the intro.
    Yeah, the Reapers cleanse the galaxy of all advanced civilisations every 50,000 years. Problem is, whoever wrote ME3 didn't understand that. Throughout the game it's such a pile of nonsense that you feel like they understand neither Mass Effect nor common sense.
  • TechnoHippy 11 Dec 2020 09:38:33 19,011 posts
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    New Mass Effect - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A_kZsfrMOc

    I know 3 was a dip, but I'm still interested.
  • mikew1985 11 Dec 2020 09:52:51 15,490 posts
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    Damn that music is still amazing
  • Decks 11 Dec 2020 10:00:01 29,777 posts
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    TechnoHippy wrote:
    New Mass Effect - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A_kZsfrMOc

    I know 3 was a dip, but I'm still interested.
    Good that you're completely ignoring Andromeda's existence.
  • Mola_Ram 11 Dec 2020 10:01:30 25,715 posts
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    What's existence?
  • Decks 11 Dec 2020 10:03:35 29,777 posts
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    It's kind of like a state of being. The ability to react with reality.
  • Mola_Ram 11 Dec 2020 10:09:58 25,715 posts
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    Thanks Decks, it all makes sense now.
  • CalamityJames 11 Dec 2020 10:46:26 294 posts
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    People are actually getting downvoted for criticising Andromeda's writing here: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2020-12-11-new-mass-effect-teaser-shows-series-will-return-to-milky-way

    Am I alone in thinking that the writing in Andromeda was so bad that it made the game unplayable? I really tried to like the game, and I love the ME universe enough that I could probably have forgiven all its other flaws, but I wouldn't have been surprised if it was revealed to have been written by an actual teenager (and not a very talented one at that). Literally the worst writing in a big-budget game that I've ever encountered.
  • nickthegun 11 Dec 2020 11:09:58 86,400 posts
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    I dont think it was bad, per se, it was just an answer to a question nobody asked. You could tell it was made because it had to be, so it was just a bit flat, lifeless and, ultimately, boring.

    The premise was boring, the chosen one was boring, the setting was boring... it was just compeltely flat and unisprired.
  • Technoishmatt 11 Dec 2020 11:20:04 5,142 posts
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    Yeah, I was watching and going, gah more CGI trailer nonsense. Then the music got me and I was like, aaaah memories!
  • Decks 11 Dec 2020 11:24:09 29,777 posts
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    Bioware should be made to have their logo in sarcastic quotation marks now.

    Edited by Decks at 12:47:16 11-12-2020
  • TechnoHippy 11 Dec 2020 12:10:28 19,011 posts
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    Decks wrote:
    TechnoHippy wrote:
    New Mass Effect - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A_kZsfrMOc

    I know 3 was a dip, but I'm still interested.
    Good that you're completely ignoring Andromeda's existence.
    You got me - actually I didn't mind Andromeda when I gave it a later try - hated it on release though.
  • Vortex808 11 Dec 2020 12:18:12 15,124 posts
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    nickthegun wrote:
    I dont think it was bad, per se, it was just an answer to a question nobody asked. You could tell it was made because it had to be, so it was just a bit flat, lifeless and, ultimately, boring.

    The premise was boring, the chosen one was boring, the setting was boring... it was just compeltely flat and unisprired.
    Spot on. It was ok, but so phoned in it was a struggle to give enough of a shit to finish it.

    The fact I did speaks volumes about how much i enjoyed ME1, 2 & most of 3. Except for *that* shitey ending obvs.

    I do like a space opera game, just don't make it as boring as andromeda please!
  • Stuz359 11 Dec 2020 12:44:22 425 posts
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    I quite enjoyed Andromeda, but it's clear the game wasn't finished and I don't just mean in terms of bugs.

    They introduced three new species, two of which were basically the same (for the whole galaxy!) and so didn't have the feeling of a fully realised universe.

    Then they just abandoned the game. Fixed some of the bugs but by no means all of them and shelved DLC plans, some of which actually sounded quite cool.

    I mean, we can take No mans Sky or the Witcher 3 as examples of how to support a game long after release. I kind of think they owed to fans of the franchise to have taken this approach too.
  • SolidSCB 11 Dec 2020 13:07:54 15,712 posts
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    It was just dull. Branching out into a completely new galaxy was was the chance to do something totally different and carve a new identity. But you could tell within the first couple of hours it was just an opportunity to have basically the same game in a setting where the continuity and choices of the original trilogy didn't need to be explored.
  • Hicksy 12 Apr 2021 22:12:49 2,677 posts
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    I kind of resent looking at paying £50 for a PS4 part-remake of ME1 and mostly graphical only remasters of ME2 & 3 as I logically know as much as these games are great without a true overhaul and mostly just graphical polish these games are going to feel a bit outdated.

    BUT then I think of 100 hrs of mostly great role play gaming in a universe I love and with many terrific characters. Dang it why can’t a well timed Ebay voucher code or something similar get it down to close £40 as that seems more reasonable...

    You just know this collection will hold its value well too grr!

    But then I think of Super Mario 3D Allstars and think hang on £50 is a bargain lol!

    Decisions... decisions...
  • richardiox 12 Apr 2021 22:52:14 9,682 posts
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    @Hicksy

    It'll be on Gamepass by the end of the year if you can wait it out.
  • Wayne 12 Apr 2021 22:59:30 3,362 posts
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    @Hicksy I’m getting it for free thanks to Microsoft Rewards. 😁
  • Killerbee 12 Apr 2021 23:24:48 5,137 posts
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    I must admit I’m in two minds about revisiting the original trilogy. I loved the games (right up to 3’s botched ending, anyway) but I also know that a huge part of that was the story, the characters and my own Shepard’s arc across the trilogy.

    Would I make the same choices? Kaiden or Ashley? Wrex? All those romance options?

    My temptation would be to treat it like re-reading a much loved novel, where you know the main story beats and can enjoy the little details you missed last time.

    But equally I would be fascinated to see the opposite choices play out.

    Anyone do this previously and did you still enjoy the game as much? Do you have a “canon” play through in your head?
  • Mola_Ram 12 Apr 2021 23:29:44 25,715 posts
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    For a minute there I thought you were implying that you could romance Wrex. Such a shame that you can't.
  • Nanocrystal 13 Apr 2021 00:03:16 2,404 posts
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    @Killerbee I've played through these games umpteen times and always make the exact same choices. Tried doing things differently once and it just felt wrong.
  • ozthegweat 13 Apr 2021 08:51:04 2,867 posts
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    The first time, I did a FemShep Paragon playthrough, then a BroShep Renegade, and the third time an incompetent BroShep where I tried to finish the trilogy with as few crew mates as possible. I actually had to make a non-idiotic choice on purpose in ME2's final mission, or else Shephard would've died and I wouldn't have been able to import the save into ME3.
  • BigOrkWaaagh 13 Apr 2021 08:58:26 10,437 posts
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    Mola_Ram wrote:
    For a minute there I thought you were implying that you could romance Wrex. Such a shame that you can't.
    Why does Wrex start with a W? He's an alien. He says "hi my name is Rex" and the first English-speaking human to record it writes Rex and he says "no, no, there's a silent W"?
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