The Eurogamer HDTV Guide Page 267

  • Worlds 13 Nov 2020 12:53:16 220 posts
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    I wouldn't worry about burn-in. If I got burn-in within 4 years, I'd be on the phone / writing a letter of complaint. It's a faulty TV, I'm covered under the consumer rights act for 4 years.

    That said, the newer models apparently have very little risk of burn-in.
  • uiruki 13 Nov 2020 12:58:54 5,493 posts
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    The CX at least is quite aggressive when it comes to still images as well, reducing brightness, and thereís a specific setting to darken logos and other static elements if theyíre not changing. If you arenít maxing out the brightness in HDR and playing the same game with a static HUD for hundreds of hours then youíll be fine. If itís just for FIFA then maybe consider putting the logo detection setting to high.
  • Worlds 13 Nov 2020 13:28:33 220 posts
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    Iím maxing out the OLED brightness and contrast - as advised by the Ďexpertsí for HDR modes and gaming.

    Obviously planning to put in 100 hours into Cyberpunk. There will be a hud. Maybe I should be worried then...
  • uiruki 13 Nov 2020 13:34:22 5,493 posts
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    I donít think so. Thatís not enough time. Iím talking like 500 hours plus of pure white text to make a difference. I wouldn't use one as a monitor thanks to static stuff like a taskbar but unless you're an edge case it won't come up.

    I remember being paranoid about a plasma and the whole display ended up aging out and being replaced before any kind of image retention had a chance to occur. The CX reminds me of that in a lot of positive ways.

    Edited by uiruki at 13:40:10 13-11-2020
  • Dirt3 13 Nov 2020 14:12:46 1,240 posts
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    Worlds wrote:
    I wouldn't worry about burn-in. If I got burn-in within 4 years, I'd be on the phone / writing a letter of complaint. It's a faulty TV, I'm covered under the consumer rights act for 4 years.

    That said, the newer models apparently have very little risk of burn-in.
    Best of luck with that. The net is full of people who have tried to claim for burn in and failed to get anywhere.

    If you are worried about burn in then there is always the JL guarantee as people have pointed out, with which you are far more likely to be successful with.
  • Velocityraptor 13 Nov 2020 14:35:01 39 posts
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    Even if the warranty covers it, I'd rather not have the stress or hassle of dealing with it. I'd worry I'd be always thinking about it.

    Also I'm not sure I'd know the cx has a better image than the xh900 (or q90) unless they were side by side. I'm currently on a 7 year old 48inch Samsung that cost 200 new. Until I started TV shopping I was actually pretty pleased with the image!

    Thanks for all the info folks. Will continue to look out for a xh900, fingers crossed for 800 in the black Friday deals!
  • Dougs 13 Nov 2020 14:43:15 96,721 posts
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    Pffft. :)
  • mrpon 13 Nov 2020 14:57:01 36,579 posts
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    nvm

    Edited by mrpon at 14:57:14 13-11-2020
  • Zerobob 13 Nov 2020 15:19:37 2,656 posts
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    uiruki wrote:
    The CX at least is quite aggressive when it comes to still images as well, reducing brightness, and thereís a specific setting to darken logos and other static elements if theyíre not changing. If you arenít maxing out the brightness in HDR and playing the same game with a static HUD for hundreds of hours then youíll be fine. If itís just for FIFA then maybe consider putting the logo detection setting to high.
    I'd just like the echo this. The CX goes into screensaver mode within a couple of minutes of displaying any static content, has a screen shift, and also adjusts logo luminance of static images and logos to prevent burn-in.

    It also has a pixel refresher cycle that runs automatically after 4 hours or more of constant use, and it also advises you run it manually after 2000 of cumulative use.

    I'm not saying it's impossible to get burn in, and if you constantly play a game with the same HUD elements for hundreds of hours I'd imagine you more than likely get burn in. However, LG are more than aware of the issue, and the TV has a lot of built-in measures to help prevent it.
  • myk 13 Nov 2020 15:56:08 735 posts
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    I've been using the 48" CX as a monitor for about 2 months now, no signs of burn in at all. Obviously have taken some precautions, like auto hiding taskbar, black background and having as few desktop icons as possible, but everything has worked perfectly so far.

    The only thing that's slightly annoying is the way Windows manages HDR, you've got to turn it on for it to work non-full screen. And then turn it off if you're doing any colour critical work. Would be better if software could force it on/off.
  • Zerobob 14 Nov 2020 09:32:14 2,656 posts
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    I've been watching The Haunting of Hill House on Netflix and it's highlighted a bit of a problem with the LG CX.

    The series has a lot of extended darker scenes, with minimal dim background lighting. During these scenes the CX will lower the brightness. Then when the camera pans to an area in the same scene that's slightly better lit, boom, the full brightness suddenly kicks in.

    It was so jarring that initially I thought it was the director's artistic choice , but then I remembered I thought I noticed this issue a few days ago, when I accessed the TV's menu during a dark scene, and everything suddenly got brighter.

    I've rewatched the scenes where I've seen it happen and it's definitely due to the picture being darkened too much. The issue has been reported on Reddit and elsewhere, but unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a way of turning this off, and it's something LG has implemented to preserve the OLED panel.

    I wouldn't mind the feature if it was subtle, but it's so jarring it's impossible to ignore.
  • fontgeeksogood 14 Nov 2020 09:48:17 11,269 posts
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    You can turn automatic brightness levels off, if you completely trust every source you have going in not to fuck it.

    I've never noticed it being a problem on my C8
  • MrWonderstuff 14 Nov 2020 10:10:32 3,428 posts
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    @Zerobob Been watching the same on my CX too. Didn't notice the lowering the black (I think I must have turned off the auto-brightness feature). I think when it comes really dark scenes (caves/haunted rooms at night) it doesn't quite have quality of darkness I would expect. I think this is just an issue with camera technology/directors intent/HDR.
  • Zerobob 14 Nov 2020 10:10:39 2,656 posts
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    fontgeeksogood wrote:
    You can turn automatic brightness levels off, if you completely trust every source you have going in not to fuck it.

    I've never noticed it being a problem on my C8
    I have no idea if I can trust certain sources not to fuck the screen. I'm not sure if anyone could possibly know that.

    All I know is it's so aggressive it's exactly like someone flicking on a light switch in the dark scene when normal brightness levels kick back in. This can't be how it was intended to function, surely?

    I'm also unsure why it's these dark scenes that keep gradually getting darker and darker. Surely it should be bright scenes the TV is attempting to dampen.
  • Zerobob 14 Nov 2020 10:32:06 2,656 posts
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    @MrWonderstuff Yes, in terms of the quality of darkness I'd agree. In-built app menus, youtube videos, and freeview content all manage to produce perfect blacks, but no Dolby Vision content I've watched so far manages it. Like you say, I've also concluded it must be the quality of the camera technology or the directors intent to wash out all the blacks.

    However, I can't find an auto brightness feature anywhere in the menus to turn off. I'm using the Cinema Home preset with dynamic contrast off with everything else default. The image keeps getting dimmed very very gradually in dark scenes (not all the time) until the scene is far too dark, then suddenly brightens if the camera pans to, say, to a shot with bright table lamp in the background.
  • Derblington 14 Nov 2020 10:38:25 34,293 posts
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    I noticed it in Hill House, but not quite the same as you say. After prolonged dim scenes the whole image would suddenly just appear brighter mid-way through a scene, almost as if someone had suddenly turned on a light on set.
    But itís only happened in that one show, and only maybe 4 times through 10 episodes, so Iím not particularly fussed. I was binge watching it over 2 nights, and Iíve never seen it appear in any other content.
  • Zerobob 14 Nov 2020 11:27:35 2,656 posts
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    @Derblington Yes I experience exactly what you described; After a prolonged dim scene the entire image suddenly brightens.

    I'll have to double check, but I think dim scenes start at a sensible brightness, and it imperceptibly gets dimmer and dimmer. Then when the scene becomes better lit (a bright lamp is in shot, for example) it then causes the overall image to suddenly brighten.

    It's happened in Hill House twice now, and I've noticed it once whilst watching Freeview, but that's it. Like you say, not a huge issue, but not one I would expect on a £1.5k TV.
  • Worlds 14 Nov 2020 11:37:45 220 posts
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    You guys tried turning off the AI auto brightness thing? I turned off all AI features in the general settings.

    Also, turn dynamic contrast mode off where possible.
  • Zerobob 14 Nov 2020 12:32:45 2,656 posts
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    @Worlds Yeah I have none of the AI settings enabled at all and dynamic contrast is off.
  • Worlds 14 Nov 2020 13:04:32 220 posts
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    Sorry I meant dynamic tone mapping to off. It can effect brightness when going from dark scenes to bright.
  • Derblington 14 Nov 2020 13:24:54 34,293 posts
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    I donít think mine got dimmer over time. It was just long dim scenes, of which there are many in Hill House for periods of time.
    Was definitely weird when it occurred, and I remember confirming it with my viewing buddy while we were watching. Itís the only time Iíve seen in almost 3 months though.
  • MrWonderstuff 14 Nov 2020 15:25:05 3,428 posts
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    @Zerobob There are quite a few posts about this over the internet. One common suggestion is to lower the contrast to 80. Make sure Ai brightness or ai picture are off as well as any Energy Saving bobbins.

    *edit: Looks like you have tried all that.

    Edited by MrWonderstuff at 15:30:55 14-11-2020
  • ozthegweat 14 Nov 2020 19:17:41 2,708 posts
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    Dimming is a feature of all OLEDs (at least LG's), I have it on mine (E6) as well. It is called ASBL (auto static brightness limiter), not to be confused with ABL (where the whiter the image is, the more the brightness is reduced).

    With ASBL, the TV dims slowly when displaying static screens to prevent burn-in. As soon as something starts moving again, the TV returns to the previous brightness.

    BUT: the TV has a high tolerance for what it deems "static". It's more like "static on average". The image might be changing, but not "enough". This is often the case with dark scenes. Those are deemed "static on average", and if they're prolonged it leads to the behaviour you guys observed, where the screen dims bit by bit without it being noticeable. I noticed it in the final scene (let's call it a "discussion") of The Dark Knight.

    On some manufacturer's OLEDs (Sony AFAIR) you can turn that feature off. With LG's it's only possible with a programmable IR remote and accessing the service menu.

    ABL (auto brightness limiter) on the other hand works differently, on a frame-by-frame basis and reacts instantaneously. The more pixels are white, the less bright the image is: a little white speck on a black background can be extremely bright (>800 nits), but a full-screen white image is significantly dimmer (~150 nits). It also can't be turned off, or else the TV would overheat and/or need a much bigger power supply.

    Edited by ozthegweat at 19:24:08 14-11-2020
  • Zerobob 14 Nov 2020 19:19:34 2,656 posts
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    @Worlds I can't see that option anywhere, even when viewing Dolby Vision content. Do you have the LG CX?

    Edit - Ah I think you have to be viewing HDR content to see the option, not just Dolby Vision. I thought they were one and the same, but I guess not.

    Edited by Zerobob at 19:23:51 14-11-2020
  • Britesparc 14 Nov 2020 19:31:07 2,181 posts
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    Wondering if one of you techy-minded folk could help me out with a bit of a query. I'm after getting a 4K TV on Black Friday, upgrading from a bog-standard HDTV). After quite a bit of reading, and based on my budget (which started out at £600 but has crept up a bit), I'm quite keen on one of Samsung's QLED range.

    At the moment the Q70T and the Q80T are more or less the same price. I figured the Q80T would be better as it had Full Array Dimming, but my wife's a bit concerned because apparently the blacks are better on the Q70T.

    Basically, for normal everyday viewing (where we'll be seeing a lot of SD content) and playing on a Series X, am I actually likely to notice a difference between the two? Would I notice, for instance, the decrease in brightness/HDR quality on the Q70 more than the decrease in blacks on the Q80 (if that makes sense!).

    Anyway, just after a bit of advice/steering, cheers everyone.
  • monkman76 14 Nov 2020 19:34:37 17,299 posts
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    I'd definitely get the full array local dimming one over the edge lit one at the same price. No question.
  • anephric 14 Nov 2020 19:38:54 4,569 posts
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    I'd buy an XH90 over either of those two QLEDs, if you can't stretch to the Q90.

    The Q70 really is a downgrade over last year's models. It doesn't have local dimming, for a start. I wouldn't go lower than the Q80, which is FALD.
  • Technoishmatt 14 Nov 2020 20:02:59 4,751 posts
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    Agreed. Fald is a minimum (budget permitting of course).

    I think far more likely to notice benefits of FALD.
  • Cpl.Hicks 14 Nov 2020 20:06:45 78 posts
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    For the folks with the CX dimming issues, it sounds very much like the energy saving mode that alters brightness based on the ambient light and the content. Make sure itís all turned off. This is perfectly safe and the only downside is the tv will use a little more energy.

    Auto brightness limiter (ABL) is the opposite and dims prolonged very bright scenes as the the OLED panel is only able to display its max brightness over a limited percentage of the screen.

    Edit: explained much better above by oztheqweat 🙂

    Edited by Cpl.Hicks at 20:08:00 14-11-2020

    Edited by Cpl.Hicks at 20:08:35 14-11-2020

    Edited by Cpl.Hicks at 20:09:11 14-11-2020
  • One_Vurfed_Gwrx 14 Nov 2020 22:07:23 4,121 posts
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    All of these issues with even the so called top TVs still leaves me waiting for a good upgrade from my ancient (2010) plasma... I fear something is going to be worse and it really shouldn't. On the plus side it has meant I have managed to resist the 4K console upgrades like the PS4 Pro (bought a PS4 a few months before they announced it or I would have got one anyway for better speed 1080P)

    Edit - not to mention inputs and running 'legacy' consoles (OSSCs etc being a factor...)

    Edited by One_Vurfed_Gwrx at 22:33:51 14-11-2020
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