technos wrote: So someone describing the graphics, if it has any glitches, if it looks realistic/decent/out of place or anything is worse than going "Graphics - 6/10"? |
The Assumed EG Bias • Page 2
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ralphwolfenstein 1,038 posts
Seen 8 years ago
Registered 19 years agoUncleLou wrote:
If you need a mark out of ten to tell you how good a game is, you're a moron. That's what the words are for...
I've said it before, I say it again: The final score doesn't need to correlate 100% with the written review, and often doesn't. It's there to complement the review, to put things in perspective, and to make clear how good and bad elements described in the written review are weighed against each other. Now you could say the written review should make all this clear, but that's a very theoretical approach. Not having scores is a cheap cop-out.
Good point. Some other things that need scores 'to put things in perspective'
Hamlet - 8/10
The Mona Lisa - 6/10
The Godfather Trilogy - 7/10 (let down by part three I'm afraid)
Roast Chicken - 9/10
That disorienting feeling when the train next to you pulls away, creating the sensation that you're moving - 3/10 -
technos 1,345 posts
Seen 14 years ago
Registered 16 years agoGremmi wrote:
You've got the wrong end of the stick there.
So someone describing the graphics, if it has any glitches, if it looks realistic/decent/out of place or anything is worse than going "Graphics - 6/10"? -
ralphwolfenstein 1,038 posts
Seen 8 years ago
Registered 19 years agotechnos wrote:
Gremmi wrote:
You've got the wrong end of the stick there.
So someone describing the graphics, if it has any glitches, if it looks realistic/decent/out of place or anything is worse than going "Graphics - 6/10"?
So have I. What did you mean? (Feel free to add a score to your reply, to help me contextualise it). -
So can you clarify it a bit? It read like Ralph saying "If you need scores, you're a moron, that's what the words are there for" and you saying "If you need the words, you're a moron already". I don't honestly think an opinion can be quantified accurately into a score out of 10. It's useful for statistics, but in my mind, anyone who skips the review, leaps to the end score and goes on that is an idiot and/or works for GAME's marketing team. -
ralphwolfenstein wrote:
UncleLou wrote:
If you need a mark out of ten to tell you how good a game is, you're a moron. That's what the words are for...
I've said it before, I say it again: The final score doesn't need to correlate 100% with the written review, and often doesn't. It's there to complement the review, to put things in perspective, and to make clear how good and bad elements described in the written review are weighed against each other. Now you could say the written review should make all this clear, but that's a very theoretical approach. Not having scores is a cheap cop-out.
Good point. Some other things that need scores 'to put things in perspective'
Hamlet - 8/10
The Mona Lisa - 6/10
The Godfather Trilogy - 7/10 (let down by part three I'm afraid)
Roast Chicken - 9/10
That disorienting feeling when the train next to you pulls away, creating the sensation that you're moving - 3/10
The train pulling away is at least a 6!
Your examples of art aren't very convincing, as videogames are measured by standards that don't apply to art.
But even then: you're saying the Mona Lisa can't be scored, but you could wite a review about it? A review that not only states the facts?
Take the roast chicken though: of course you could compare roast chickens of 10 different restaurants and give scores. How fresh is the meat, is it too dry, too much salt, did they use old fat, etc. etc. -
Genji 19,682 posts
Seen 10 years ago
Registered 17 years agoNo scores at the end of the review = comments thread filled with people speculating about possible score / complaining about lack of score. Sad but true.
Although if we piss them off enough, maybe they'll go off to IGN or GameSpy and never look back. Here's hoping! -
Genji wrote:
No scores at the end of the review = comments thread filled with people speculating about possible score / complaining about lack of score. Sad but true.
Scores at the end of the review = comments thread filled with people bitching about how it's the wrong score and how the review's crap.
It's a double-edged sword, really. One is no better than the other, but I still think a trial could be interesting. Not a permanent change, of course, but just an experiment. Start each review with a disclaimer saying "This review has no scores because blah blah blah", and, like the Edge experiment, you'll work out the muppets who don't even read what's put in front of them anyway. -
MetalDog 24,076 posts
Seen 3 years ago
Registered 20 years agoWhy the hell would it bother you that the numbers are there? If you don't want to look at the numbers, read the review, or vice versa, or both, or neither.
Judging a game wholly on any one review/score seems stupid, unless you yourself wrote it, so you'll be pulling in more than one bit of comparative information anyway, right? -
MetalDog wrote:
Why the hell would it bother you that the numbers are there? If you don't want to look at the numbers, read the review, or vice versa, or both, or neither.
It doesn't bother me that the score's there. It bothers me that because EG's reviews are based on a personal opinion, you get comments threads flooded with "This review is crap, it should be an 8", see Kameo for an example. You'd still get the bitching without the scores, but hopefully it would be actual bitching about the game elements, rather than a number.
I'd like to double-clarify that I'm not saying do away with scores, I'm saying that a temporary experiment without them would be quite interesting. -
Genji 19,682 posts
Seen 10 years ago
Registered 17 years agoSure, give it a try. It wouldn't do any harm. -
technos 1,345 posts
Seen 14 years ago
Registered 16 years agoGremmi wrote:
No, the word 'need'.
So can you clarify it a bit? It read like Ralph saying "If you need scores, you're a moron, that's what the words are there for" and you saying "If you need the words, you're a moron already". I don't honestly think an opinion can be quantified accurately into a score out of 10. It's useful for statistics, but in my mind, anyone who skips the review, leaps to the end score and goes on that is an idiot and/or works for GAME's marketing team. -
technos wrote:
Gremmi wrote:
No, the word 'need'.
So can you clarify it a bit? It read like Ralph saying "If you need scores, you're a moron, that's what the words are there for" and you saying "If you need the words, you're a moron already". I don't honestly think an opinion can be quantified accurately into a score out of 10. It's useful for statistics, but in my mind, anyone who skips the review, leaps to the end score and goes on that is an idiot and/or works for GAME's marketing team.
...the word 'need' what? Sorry if I'm being a bit thick, but that didn't answer anything. Do you mean "If you need the words, you need the score"? 'Cause that's what the whole suggestion of an experiment is about, although it's primarily an idea to stop this pointless bitching about a number based on someone's personal opinion. -
marilena 8,238 posts
Seen 1 day ago
Registered 18 years agoralphwolfenstein wrote:
Good point. Some other things that need scores 'to put things in perspective'
Hamlet - 8/10
The Mona Lisa - 6/10
The Godfather Trilogy - 7/10 (let down by part three I'm afraid)
Roast Chicken - 9/10
That disorienting feeling when the train next to you pulls away, creating the sensation that you're moving - 3/10
That sounds odd just because you are not used to things of that type receiving scores. But if you wanted to give them scores, you could. I remember I used to score everything at some point, at the begining of my now finished reviewing career. Even the sex (and most nights it was a 7). Obviously all the girls (that even had a breakdown, with scores for the face and various parts of the body; good thing I returned to sanity, that was a strange world to live in).
You have it bang on with Mona Lisa, it's highly overrated in my opinion. But then maybe I'm not getting the context. Hamlet I'd rate as a 9, keeping in mind what it is and where it comes from (as a modern play I would give it a lower score, because modern heroes are supposed to be more active and less depressed). -
Teeth 7,987 posts
Seen 10 years ago
Registered 18 years agooften don't have time to read whole review so just glance at score quite like it to be honest the score I mean can't hang about as my father often says -
ralphwolfenstein 1,038 posts
Seen 8 years ago
Registered 19 years agoUncleLou wrote:
ralphwolfenstein wrote:
Hamlet - 8/10
The Mona Lisa - 6/10
The Godfather Trilogy - 7/10 (let down by part three I'm afraid)
Roast Chicken - 9/10
That disorienting feeling when the train next to you pulls away, creating the sensation that you're moving - 3/10
The train pulling away is at least a 6!
Your examples of art aren't very convincing, as videogames are measured by standards that don't apply to art.
But even then: you're saying the Mona Lisa can't be scored, but you could wite a review about it? A review that not only states the facts?
Take the roast chicken though: of course you could compare roast chickens of 10 different restaurants and give scores. How fresh is the meat, is it too dry, too much salt, did they use old fat, etc. etc.
That was rather tongue in cheek, and yes, I agree there are elements of games that benefit from objectivity (ie frame rate, loading times) that other visual media is generally unaffected by (you don't see a film criticised for 25fps)...
I just think a mark out of ten is too limiting, and invites direct comparison. Is FIFA Street really as good as Halo? Of course not - one's arguably 'essential' and one's (possibly, though I doubt it - another reviewer fuck up I suspect) 'enjoyable'
The thing is, it's often hard to score a perfectly fun, enjoyable game poorly, even if the game itself is lightweight, disposable and ultimately forgettable (as so many are).
Likewise, it's often difficult to justify a high score if 'objectively' a game doesn't offer apparent substance - case in point being Rez. Six levels of wire-frame space harrier? But for me, it's the greatest game of this generation. Likewise, Advance Wars or Lumines - utterly essential in my book, but I think it's disingenuous to 'score' them the same as an epic, beautifully crafted FPS... Is a falling blocks puzzler as 'objectively' good as Halo (for example)? Maybe not, but they're both utterly essential gaming experiences...
Scoring muddies the issue rather than clarifies. That's why I loved the Melody Maker system so much, because you couldn't argue with it - it's either 'essential' or 'recommended' or 'take a chance.' Although with games, you arguably need 'shoot on sight' as well...
And EG will never ditch scores, because
a) without them they miss out on Metacritic/Gameranking referrals, and
b) the peasant underclass would never allow it -
Mike_Hunt wrote:
rauper wrote:
I was really impressed until I noticed the Xbox filter.
bias by numbers
[MH]
That was my point - look at how many 10's, 9's and 8's we've given to Xbox games. Bloody loads! -
Wrobel 88 posts
Seen 10 years ago
Registered 17 years agoonly one Xbox exclusive ever got 10/10
Rallysport did get ported to the PC so is no longer an exclusive. -
Carlo 21,801 posts
Seen 1 day ago
Registered 16 years agoTalking of scoring games... Can we have a 'blue-sky' rating?
You know, 'How happy is it going to make be feel just by playing it'.gif)
Examples:
Bubble-bobble 10/10
New Zealand Story: 10/10
Mario: 10/10
Edited by Carlo at 14:24:49 23-11-2005 -
FairgroundTown 2,522 posts
Seen 8 years ago
Registered 16 years agoGremmi wrote:
Didn't they do this for the reviews of the old Nintendo (SNES???) games that were re-released for the GBA?
Start each review with a disclaimer saying "This review has no scores because blah blah blah", and, like the Edge experiment, you'll work out the muppets who don't even read what's put in front of them anyway. -
Shinji 5,902 posts
Seen 8 years ago
Registered 20 years agoHow the dickens did Rob ever give Soul Calibur 2 10/10?
Because it's bloody brilliant!
(Seriously - I haven't a moment's hesitation in standing by that score. SCII was a real high point of the current generation, for me.) -
Carlo wrote:
Talking of scoring games... Can we have a 'blue-sky' rating?
You know, 'How happy is it going to make be feel just by playing it'
Examples:
Bubble-bobble 10/10
New Zealand Story: 10/10
Mario: 10/10
If they do that I'll probably throw up every time I read a review of a Nintendo game.
edit: hungover fingers
Edited by boabg at 15:06:28 23-11-2005 -
otto wrote:
rauper wrote:
How do you get to that page? I'm trying to view Cube and PS2 reviews by score.
bias by numbers
Change the end of the address (xbox) to cube or ps2 -
Carlo 21,801 posts
Seen 1 day ago
Registered 16 years agoCube
Edit: Bast!
Edited by Carlo at 15:12:58 23-11-2005 -
opalw00t 12,836 posts
Seen 5 days ago
Registered 17 years agoChange the word xbox to cube or ps2 at the end of the URL.
edit: Damn your nimble fingers!!!
Edited by w00t at 15:12:23 23-11-2005 -
/waggles fingers of lightning at w00t -
Shinji 5,902 posts
Seen 8 years ago
Registered 20 years agoWhoops, looks like a bit of a glitch with that NFSU Rivals page... -
SEVEN!!! I'd give it one
.gif)
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