Final Fantasy XIII Page 203

  • Deleted user 23 May 2011 22:45:27
    LionheartDJH wrote:
    I actually liked Squall, probably my favourite FF character actually (check the username!). However I didn't like Lightning, or any of the rest of them, as I said they were all annoying cunts who I couldn't care less about, and I actively wanted the bad guys to kill them at some point in the story. Also as I said the story was a badly told bag of shit. And Squall is better looking than Lightning tbf ;)

    Don't hold back LH, tell us how you really feel! :-)
  • PazJohnMitch 23 May 2011 22:48:02 14,645 posts
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    redcrayon wrote:
    PazJohnMitch wrote:
    redcrayon wrote:
    I still can't remember playing another game where I despised the cast quite as much

    Clearly not played Blue Dragon then? Although admitedly that is only one character but....

    As a whole cast though FFXIII is the worst set. Hope, Vanille and Snow are all terrible. I like Fang and Sazh but they are pretty one dimensional. Lightening was a good looking version of Squall for me. Did not dislike her that much as I had already had to deal with a grumpy FF lead before.

    Ah, y'see, I quite like the positive lead characters like Zidane and Vyse in JRPGs. Grouchy emo teenagers FTL.

    I also prefer the positive characters. Vyse is my favourite ever lead and Zidane my favourite FF lead. It is more that I was prepared for Lightening than actually liking her.
  • Deleted user 23 May 2011 22:49:52
    Hold onto your truth hats here people I'm about to unleash a bombshell....

    FF8 was only bearable because of the card game. Meant in total honesty.
  • Deleted user 23 May 2011 22:50:39
    8 also had the best soundtrack of the lot.
  • Deleted user 23 May 2011 22:51:33
    The card game soundtrack? Yeah, that rocked.
  • Deleted user 23 May 2011 22:53:09
    Nah the entire game. Widely acclaimed as Uematsu's best work, by the man himself as well.
  • PazJohnMitch 23 May 2011 22:53:09 14,645 posts
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    I liked 8; it was the first ever JRPG that I played.
  • Deleted user 23 May 2011 22:54:16
    It pisses in 13 from a massive height that's for sure.
  • LionheartDJH 23 May 2011 22:58:26 20,294 posts
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    It's my favourite game ever actually. Oh and you're right about the soundtrack too Boab, so many great pieces in there. The landing and the ballroom scene are still two of my favourite gaming memories, all enhanced by Uematsu's awesome music.
  • Deleted user 23 May 2011 23:01:44
    When will people learn that FF9 beats all?

    /sigh
  • LionheartDJH 23 May 2011 23:02:44 20,294 posts
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    Shut up monkey boy :p
  • PazJohnMitch 23 May 2011 23:03:14 14,645 posts
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    Snakehips76 wrote:
    When will people learn that FF9 beats all?

    /sigh

    Second for me but then I am weird and loved FFXII.
  • andywilkie35 23 May 2011 23:04:18 5,327 posts
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    Snakehips76 wrote:
    When will people learn that FF9 beats all?

    /sigh

    Playing FFIX now (for the fourth time I believe) - it's my favourite one.

    FFVIII is a close second for me though.
  • Deleted user 23 May 2011 23:06:04
    Yeah I hated XII with a passion - horses and courses yada yada.
  • LionheartDJH 23 May 2011 23:10:36 20,294 posts
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    XII was a bit of a letdown for me, mainly cos I waited so long for it and it didn't quite deliver, and the fact I'd moved onto 360 by the time it came out didn't help either. However I did very much like the story despite it being maligned by some, just some of the characters were a bit boring (not Balthier though, he's fucking awesome, one of my fave FF characters ever!).

    Vaan was a bit of a girl, and from the impression I got of the first 10 hours or so (yes I've only fully completed VIII and X despite my love for FF) it had a bit of Phantom Menace syndrome, i.e. there wasn't one main central character. It's flawed in ways, but I will go back to it someday, and it's a masterpiece compared to XIII.

    Edit: formatting for the one with snake like hips ;)
  • Deleted user 23 May 2011 23:12:42
    Speaking of FFVIII, what is it with the current fashion of RPG characters being a class of schoolkids-with-weapons/magic training?

    What would be a brave bit of casting in a FF game would be not having a teenager (or someone who acts like a 12-year-old) as the central protagonist.

    Older characters allow for interesting back-stories, dependants and enemies, and after a dozen games exploring the coming-of-age, loser-succeeds through-learning-to-trust-others trope, it would be good for a lead to have some depth.
  • Deleted user 23 May 2011 23:15:15
    LionheartDJH wrote:
    XII was a bit of a letdown for me, mainly cos I waited so long for it and it didn't quite deliver, and the fact I'd moved onto 360 by the time it came out didn't help either. However I did very much like the story despite it being maligned by some, just some of the characters were a bit boring (not Balthier though, he's fucking awesome, one of my fave FF characters ever!). Vaan was a bit of a girl, and from the impression I got of the first 10 hours or so (yes I've only fully completed VIII and X despite my love for FF) it had a bit of Phantom Menace syndrome, i.e. there wasn't one main central character. It's flawed in ways, but I will go back to it someday, and it's a masterpiece compared to XIII.

    Wall of text...etc...!
    Rather me than anyone else I guess?
  • Deleted user 23 May 2011 23:19:03
    Lionheart- what was odd about XII was that Vaan and Pennelo are the first characters you play as, but all of them bar Basch and Ashe are on the fringes of the plot. There is no reason for them to be there other than for shits and giggles.

    Basch is a framed,imprisoned knight.
    Ashe is a rebel princess, betrothed to a slaughtered prince.
    Vaan delivers apples.
    Pennelo likes Vaan.

    2 of these would make good leads. They picked the other two.

    For all that, XII is my second favourite FF- I liked the Gambits, and fighting enemies on the field took the grind out of it.
  • LionheartDJH 23 May 2011 23:19:44 20,294 posts
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    redcrayon wrote:
    Speaking of FFVIII, what is it with the current fashion of RPG characters being a class of schoolkids-with-weapons/magic training?

    What would be a brave bit of casting in a FF game would be not having a teenager (or someone who acts like a 12-year-old) as the central protagonist.

    Older characters allow for interesting back-stories, dependants and enemies, and after a dozen games exploring the coming-of-age, loser-succeeds through-learning-to-trust-others trope, it would be good for a lead to have some depth.

    FFX and FFXII fly in the face of this :). Also other JRPGs like Lost Odyssey have more mature protagonists, Kaim in particular fits that bill particularly well and is a really good character.
  • PazJohnMitch 23 May 2011 23:20:30 14,645 posts
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    In my eyes Ashe was the lead in FFXII.
  • Deleted user 23 May 2011 23:24:54
    You know what I mean, Valkyria Chronicles 2, Persona, FF Type-O etc etc. I can't think of anyone I'd like to enter battle with less than my old secondary school class!

    OK, OK, I'll concede there are plenty of mature ones too, Stocke in Radiant Historia springs to mind. As do JRPG heroes before they could talk in cut scenes!

    For example-

    Heroes in Dragon Quest kill monsters because they are badass wandering heroes, it's just what they do, the bad guys are in the way, and they shut up, deal with it, and get on with saving the world.
    Heroes in FF kill monsters because it helps them resolve their issues with missing parental figures and puberty.

    :-)
  • Deleted user 23 May 2011 23:28:05
    PazJohnMitch wrote:
    In my eyes Ashe was the lead in FFXII.

    Yeah, for me it was Basch. It just felt like the director tacked two teenagers onto a dark story about politics, and made you babysit them for three hours before handing you over to the people who actually had a stake in the story.

    If the primary goal was about Vaan fulfilling his dream of becoming an air pirate, yeah, that would have made sense.
  • PazJohnMitch 23 May 2011 23:31:24 14,645 posts
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    It was as if they were scared to have older leads and therefore created some kids.
  • LionheartDJH 23 May 2011 23:33:31 20,294 posts
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    I hate kids IRL, the last thing I want to do is babysit them in a videogame, especially one where I'm trying to save the world. The kids in Lost Odyssey are so damn annoying and the ones in FFXIII are just retarded.
  • Deleted user 24 May 2011 00:07:09
    Importing SNES games in the 90s wasn't the easiest (or cheapest) hobby, y'know!

    Secret of Mana was all I needed.
  • Lawrens 24 May 2011 04:48:13 395 posts
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    Yeah, for me it was Basch. It just felt like the director tacked two teenagers onto a dark story about politics, and made you babysit them for three hours before handing you over to the people who actually had a stake in the story.

    Yea originally, Basch was the main protagonist of the game but SE wanted a younger one to appeal to a wider demographic. One other thing is that the high tech airships and such was not the director's idea too from what I've read from the interviews. (
  • JinTypeNoir 24 May 2011 05:37:12 4,368 posts
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    redcrayon wrote:
    Hey Jin. I thought you made some good points here- Final Fantasy does try new things, and I've liked most of them for their individual quirks.

    The battle system of FFXIII I thought was pretty good- switching jobs in real-time, and watching the immediate change in your party tactics made managing the team interesting and rewarding.

    The pacing does seem a bit wrong though, I agree that change is good, and it was brave to throw out the JRPG formula, but there must have been other ways to give the players a break from battle-battle-battle than just cut scenes. It felt like the director didn't want to leave the player any opportunity to make the story their own.

    Perhaps (none of us know for sure), that was the entire idea. Make most of the game entirely revolve around battle. I certainly think it was because the plot they put into the game is very much one that forces the game not to stop for the typical RPG side elements for the majority of the game. The always-moving forward momentum was the point. I think they could have designed other things such as mini-games or some sort of timed exploration puzzles (though claiming there weren't any at all is misleading). Also I don't at all agree that it was just a tube the whole way through, even is ignore Pulse. It wasn't very complex, but from the simple beginning it got less straightforward than Final Fantasy X did almost all the way through pretty quickly.

    Also, what exactly about the character interaction did you find inspired? Could you elaborate on that?

    Mostly, how, plotwise, they had very little time to form the type of bonds you usually see come about through the trope of "party goes on long ass epic adventure and becomes like a family." Stress, their problems and the common big problem of becoming marked threw them together in a more logical way then "Hey, let's travel together."

    Then, through their dialogue it was very easy to piece together the story, what Lushi and Falshi were, the conflict between Pulse and Cocoon, the unfairness of the purge, why Lightning and Snow don't get along, etc. I can't believe people say they had to check the in-game encyclopedia to understand. Until it gets "typically Final Fantasy metaphysical huh?" at the end, it's extremely easy to understand.

    But more than that, the characters felt more genuine than in some of these games before, where you can definitely kind of feel the writers stretch to get their motivations where they need to be, but the growth doesn't seem natural. A prime example IS Hope.

    Looking at things from his point of view, I can totally see why you would feel scared out of your wits and completely out of your league, not knowing what to do and want to complain about it all. While you're being forced away from your home and believe you will almost certainly die, in the midst of trying to help your mom dies. You are now completely alone, and the next time you see the guy who lead her away to fight the cause, HE is alive, laughing and joking around with his friends. Good lord, I would flip out on the guy right then and there, and you almost see him do that plenty of times, before either something else or his natural shyness and reticence get in the way. So this totally weird red-head pushes him to confront the guy and while trying to do so, he becomes what his world thinks of as a demon and not only that must either destroy his old home or turn into a monster (from what he knows when it happens). Above all this, he's a 13-year old kid who hadn't had any of the experiences the five other characters had before all this happened to him.

    Rather than say he was annoying, I'm surprised he did that well, considering the circumstances. He had four adult figures to look at along the way. Lightning just gets done, no matter how she hates it, no matter how awful the situation. Sazh is detached in a way, with a "Well, what are you gonna do? That's the way things are." attitude. Fang is actually the type of hero Snow is always pretending he is. And Vanille may hide all her feelings behind a mask of cuteness, but she keeps trooping. As he follows or gets dragged around by all these characters, he eventually starts to figure out how to deal and gets influenced by them. When he does start to take stock of the situation and become more active, it's a great moment. I loved it.

    Hope was my favorite character, so that's why I focused on him. But none of my thoughts about him are particularly deeply fleshed out because it's all so easy to read from the cutscenes. As Final Fantasy is often trying to be light and easy to understand for the masses, this fits rather well. At the same time, the other five characters have their own stories and the main plot is just as bananas as ever, but I didn't particularly feel overwhelmed or confused. So it's as light and easy to digest as Final Fantasy aims to be, and yet, there's quite a lot of subtext. That, I thought, was inspired.
  • King_Edward 24 May 2011 06:11:33 11,470 posts
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    redcrayon wrote:

    Lionheart- what was odd about XII was that Vaan and Pennelo are the first characters you play as, but all of them bar Basch and Ashe are on the fringes of the plot. There is no reason for them to be there other than for shits and giggles.


    That's one of the things I liked most about. It offered a different perspective to the norm.

    FFVII will always be the best one though.
  • Deleted user 24 May 2011 09:27:18
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