Should Nintendo stop making hardware and develop for the other systems? • Gaming • Wii • Eurogamer.net

cyber_nicco 30 Jul 2006 04:14:33 464 posts
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Now don't get mad, I'm not saying they should. It just seems to me that they have a number of excellent franchises that I am pretty sure would sell like proverbial hotcakes if they were available on other platforms.

I uderstand they keep them exclusive to sell their own consoles, but traditionally the hardware is not where the money is made - it's the software. I guess it depends on how much licensing money their hardware can generate from third-parties...

It just seems interesting to me. I suspect it has been considered (maybe not), but I think Sega's mediocre financial track-record since they made that move might disuade folks like Nintendo

All this is because I don't know that I will get a Wii, but I'd love to play some new Mario, Zelda, et al on an Xbox (of some variety).

What do you all think?

EDIT: I'm quoting a post I made much later in this thread, because I think many people are misunderstanding my question and my position...

cyber_nicco wrote:
My god, a lot of people sure did misunderstand my question. I have to admit, I've only read in about 40 or so posts, but I had to say something right away.

First of all, I am not suggesting Nintendo SHOULD stop making their consoles, and I was never even considering that they would give up handhelds (as they always do quite well there). I was only just toying with the idea that they'd make more money, and reach more gamers, by opening up their lovely franchises to all gamers.

This, of course, would probably require that they stop making living room consoles (not handhelds - more on that later). I do believe Nintendo is not in the same boat as MS and Sony as far as losing money on hardware, but cost to produce numbers don't take into account the costs to develop a new hardware platform.

For a long time now, I've been hearing from Nintendo and their camp of loyal supporters, that it's all about the games. This is usually said when it is pointed out that the Gamecube and Wii are markedly less "powerful" than competing consoles. Well, if it's all about the software, then why not focus on making the software? I admit, the Wiimote muddles up the equation a bit, because it changes the interface to the games so much. However, in my mind, the jury is still out on whether or not the Wiimote will prove to be a good thing in the long run.

On to handhelds. I think if they made their franchises available to hordes of new gamers on other consoles, but kept them exclusive to their handhelds, it might effectively squash any competition in that market (although they don't need a lot of help), giving them an even tighter control on the market that makes them the most money (I believe).

Finally. I like Nintendo. I have a N64 (Which I still play from time to time, but goddamn that controller). I chose it over the PS1 because I like Nintendo (I used to love my SNES). That being said, I liked the Nintendo products because I liked the games - not that I was so in love with the hardware (which was fine, too).

Hope that clears a few things up...

Edited by cyber_nicco at 18:10:56 30-07-2006

kcorb 30 Jul 2006 04:38:32 2,147 posts
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I cannot even imagine playing Nintendo games on any other console.
Nintendo should keep making consoles, should keep inventing and changing games so we have something to look forward to.
If all they made was software, I probably wouldn't play them, because really, they would suck. I don't think I've played a Sega game since the 16-bit era.

cyber_nicco 30 Jul 2006 07:18:17 464 posts
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kcorb wrote:
I cannot even imagine playing Nintendo games on any other console.
Nintendo should keep making consoles, should keep inventing and changing games so we have something to look forward to.
If all they made was software, I probably wouldn't play them, because really, they would suck. I don't think I've played a Sega game since the 16-bit era.

I'm not really sure why you say they would "suck" if they were on other consoles. Because the Gamecube controller was so good? Really. I'm not sure why any of Nintendo's Gamecube offerings would be so bad on other consoles.

Can you please explain a little more?

edit: I had made a little dig at the Gamecube controller that I didn't really mean the way it sounded, so I toned it down.

Edited by cyber_nicco at 17:39:19 30-07-2006

Edited by cyber_nicco at 17:39:52 30-07-2006

greatest_fish30 30 Jul 2006 08:08:01 445 posts
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If Nintendo stopped making consoles gaming would become too generic. Nintendo keeps the gaming industry interesting with its innovation. Without them it would die, slowly but surely.

Edit - I happen to like the gamecube controller.

Edited by greatest_fish30 at 08:09:16 30-07-2006

Youthist 30 Jul 2006 08:26:48 14,724 posts
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greatest_fish30 wrote:
If Nintendo stopped making consoles gaming would become too generic. Nintendo keeps the gaming industry interesting with its innovation. Without them it would die, slowly but surely.

Edit - I happen to like the gamecube controller.

Edited by greatest_fish30 at 08:09:16 30-07-2006

I think the gamecube controller is great. The Wavebird still has best analogue sticks so far on any console . And the wireless was groundbreaking - now they are standard.

Xerx3s 30 Jul 2006 10:09:28 23,970 posts
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kcorb wrote:
I cannot even imagine playing Nintendo games on any other console.

Really? Did you know that franchises like Donkey Kong, Zelda, mario, etc. where released for other consoles?

Nintendo keeps the gaming industry interesting with its innovation. Without them it would die, slowly but surely.

What a load of bollocks imo. Although Ninty does some major progressive thinking in the console industry, it is the PC industry that keeps innovating overall imo. Most innovations from the console came from the PC. I can't look at a single oncomming game for the consoles now and not see things that came from the PC.

You will also see that there are alot of great number of indy's that make new and innovating games that would NEVER see daylight on consoles (well, XBLa perhaps, if they are lucky). The PC is the perfect breeding ground for innovation because it lacks boundaries and rules like consoles.

That said, I wouldn't want to see ninty go. It would mean less companies and thus less competition. Less is a bad thing imo.

Xerx3s 30 Jul 2006 10:13:32 23,970 posts
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Youthist wrote:

greatest_fish30 wrote:
If Nintendo stopped making consoles gaming would become too generic. Nintendo keeps the gaming industry interesting with its innovation. Without them it would die, slowly but surely.

Edit - I happen to like the gamecube controller.

Edited by greatest_fish30 at 08:09:16 30-07-2006

I think the gamecube controller is great. The Wavebird still has best analogue sticks so far on any console . And the wireless was groundbreaking - now they are standard.

Err? A) The wireless was not standard with the controller, thus not as groundbreaking. B) It wasn't the first wireless controller. C) If anything, this would be groundbreaking.

MrWorf 30 Jul 2006 10:18:22 64,193 posts
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cyber_nicco wrote:
I uderstand they keep them exclusive to sell their own consoles, but traditionally the hardware is not where the money is made - it's the software.

True for most companies, but Nintendo actually make money from hardware sales. So there.

MrWorf 30 Jul 2006 10:21:02 64,193 posts
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Xerx3s wrote:
That said, I wouldn't want to see ninty go. It would mean less companies and thus less competition. Less is a bad thing imo.

LOL! You fool. You think less competition is a good thing for the consumer?! Hahahaha!

Edited by Razz at 10:21:09 30-07-2006

Xerx3s 30 Jul 2006 10:26:20 23,970 posts
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Razz wrote:

Xerx3s wrote:
That said, I wouldn't want to see ninty go. It would mean less companies and thus less competition. Less is a bad thing imo.
LOL! You fool. You think less competition is a good thing for the consumer?! Hahahaha!

Edited by Razz at 10:21:09 30-07-2006

Imagine this. A world where only EA is left.

/shivers

MrWorf 30 Jul 2006 10:38:30 64,193 posts
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Xerx3s wrote:

Razz wrote:

Xerx3s wrote:
That said, I wouldn't want to see ninty go. It would mean less companies and thus less competition. Less is a bad thing imo.
LOL! You fool. You think less competition is a good thing for the consumer?! Hahahaha!
Edited by Razz at 10:21:09 30-07-2006

Imagine this. A world where only EA is left.

/shivers

LOL! I misread your post.

MrWorf 30 Jul 2006 10:38:39 64,193 posts
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Post deleted

Venkman90 30 Jul 2006 10:52:43 4,430 posts
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I find it ironic that the one company we think is / could be / should be closest to jacking in hardware is the ONLY one who makes a profit on every console they sell (a company mission statement)

Microsoft and Sony lose a fortune producing bloated graphics labs and dont even make good FP software...they seem to make their cash on the 3rd party publishing? or just dont make money in Sonys case.

That being said I do like my 360 and PSP, its just that Ninty seem to be the only ones who are actually moving forward.\

/will buy a Wii to go with the 360

Cappy 30 Jul 2006 11:16:21 14,394 posts
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Venkman90 wrote:
Sony lose a fortune producing bloated graphics labs and dont even make good FP software...they seem to make their cash on the 3rd party publishing? or just dont make money in Sonys case.

Total rubbish.

Parappa the Rapper, Shadow of the Collosus, ICO, Devil Dice, Dark Cloud 2, Mr. Mosquito, Siren, Vib Ribbon, Ore no Ryouri, Loco Roco... etc. etc.

All Sony first party. Not all timeless classics but there are certainly more hits than misses. Sony never gets the credit it deserves for supporting and developing original and innovative games.

Deleted user 30 July 2006 11:37:07

Death of thread in 3...2...1...

Teeth 30 Jul 2006 11:46:37 7,987 posts
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Wait, albundy - point out where greatest_fish30 there 'dismissed the Xbox 360 as "mor3 grafix"' as you say.

This is the problem with your arguments, you strawman all the time. Here, let me have a go: If people like you weren't so completely dismissive of the Wii controller based on pure specul... oh.

Teeth 30 Jul 2006 11:54:03 7,987 posts
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I asked you to point out where he said the xbox 360 is mor3 grafix. You have failed to do so, do you admit to putting words into his mouth?

djchump 30 Jul 2006 11:58:48 4,463 posts
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TBH - I rate Nintendo as *very* innovative and I love them for it :-)

I love my DS and Wii will be the only console I have ever pre-ordered and bought at launch.

Microsoft I also have a lot of respect for - I've never been anti-MS / anti-Bill Gates. IMHO, Microsoft's real strength is in tools and support - they make it *easier* and *cheaper* to make games/software for their platforms.

Sony I see as being extremely good at marketing and selling gadgets to the mass-market - their success with the Playstation brand is phenomenal and this success has allowed the PS to have lots of very innovative games - because the PS has such a massive userbase, quirky and innovative games are a viable option for publishers. For Guitar Hero alone, I love my PS2 :-D

gerg 30 Jul 2006 12:00:37 880 posts
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1. Competition is good for the market. Thusly, more competition = more goodness.

2. Nintendo actually makes money on their hardware. Because of Sony's and Microsoft's buisness strategies the manufacturing costs of their respective consoles skyrocket beyong a reasonable consumer pricepoint, meaning that they are forced to sell at a price lower to the manufacturing costs, and subsequently lose money on every machine sold. It's undesputable fact.
Anyway, I believe that Nintendo would lose potential revenue if it were to go third party, as it would miss out on the profits it makes via its hardware.

3. In a sense, Nintendo's games are nothing without its own platforms. Nintendo has continued to innovate using the tools readily available on the market, and its greatest hits wouldn't shine as much if the platforms they didn't appear on didn't exist.

@ albundy: Although I agree that Microsoft, and to some extent, Sony, are trying to innovate games, Nintendo is the only one that has continued to do it, and brought such innovation to the mass market, whether or not such attempts were successful.

Teeth 30 Jul 2006 12:08:06 7,987 posts
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Hmm, I don't know the real reasons why Sega stopped with the Dreamcast - probably they didn't have enough money to carry on pimping the ailing DC and punch through into the next gen like Microsoft has done. Nintendo still make a lot of cash IIRC so that's not a problem for them.

Yes, they could go third party. But they've no reason to.

Deleted user 30 July 2006 12:10:26

Maybe Sega should team up with Apple and get a 4th console into the fray

But then they'd have to remember how to make AAA games again first...

Teeth 30 Jul 2006 12:11:50 7,987 posts
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Nobody is asserting that Microsoft are not really trying to push the envelope, as this is a thread about Nintendo.

Deleted user 30 July 2006 12:12:26

albundy wrote:
@ Gerg

But Microsoft are only two consoles in. And the Xbox 360 is a wholesale innovation on the Xbox, when you factor in the vastly increased importance of Live Arcade, the drive to get the Japanese on board, a clear attempt to make quirky budgets more 'big budget' than the likes of Grabbed by the Ghoulies et al, when you consider Fuzion Frenzy 2 and viva Pinata. I don't understand how anyone can reasonably conclude that Microsoft aren't really trying to push the envelope here.

Meh, they're just copying the Dreamcast.

Chu Chu Rocket for free & the internet 4tw!

gerg 30 Jul 2006 12:18:14 880 posts
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albundy wrote:
@ Gerg

But Microsoft are only two consoles in. And the Xbox 360 is a wholesale innovation on the Xbox, when you factor in the vastly increased importance of Live Arcade, the drive to get the Japanese on board, a clear attempt to make quirky budgets more 'big budget' than the likes of Grabbed by the Ghoulies et al, when you consider Fuzion Frenzy 2 and viva Pinata. I don't understand how anyone can reasonably conclude that Microsoft aren't really trying to push the envelope here.

I'm not saying that they aren't, I'm just saying that Nintendo has had a much bigger success story than they have, and thus get much recognition. History is written by the winners of wars, so if Nintendo beat out Microsoft and Sony to get a first-party wireless controller for their GameCube, they're going to be remembered for it.

Point-in-case: Live Aracde *is* remembered as being incredibly innovative, and this time it's Nintendo's WiiConnect24 service that people connect (pun not intended) with the "tag-along" label. Unless Nintendo's service does intend to do something incredibly successful and different from its Microsoft counterpart, it won't be remembered as being innovative, no matter how innovative it really is.

Personally I wouldn't count the "drive to get the Japanese on board", which I assume you mean "on board to the Xbox 360", as innovative as the only real reason I would say Microsoft is doing so because it knows its failings on the Japanese market and is only trying to get itself out of a problem.

And anyway, innovation is an act. I personally believe that innovative is not something an object can really be described as, but rather can be applied to the actions behind the object. Microsoft's techniques aren't really innovative, whilst Nintendo's are in most cases.

Genji 30 Jul 2006 12:19:41 19,682 posts
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No! The more competition the better, no matter what albundy thinks.

Teeth 30 Jul 2006 12:22:27 7,987 posts
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albundy wrote:

Teeth wrote:
I asked you to point out where he said the xbox 360 is mor3 grafix. You have failed to do so, do you admit to putting words into his mouth?
Let's just say that his implied suggestion was clear.

No, you put words itno his mouth. You took his statement and twisted it to be anti-microsoft so you could make your tiresome, verbose, off-topic point. It was a strawman argument.

Genji 30 Jul 2006 12:23:02 19,682 posts
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frod wrote:
I think other systems should stop and start developing for Nintendo.

:-D

Sid-Nice 30 Jul 2006 12:25:01 15,848 posts
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albundy wrote:
If you actually stopped to look at the 360, and didn't dismiss it as "mor3 grafix" then you might actually see that it is a supremely innovative offering, and will only get better as time goes on.

You don't own a 360 mate; I've had one since launch and all I do is bloody look at it. There isn't a next gen title on the machine and that's 8 months after its launch.

Teeth 30 Jul 2006 12:27:06 7,987 posts
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Why are you posting off topic? Microsoft get tons of credit, pretty much everyone accepts they're doing a really good job now. This thread's not about Microsoft.

Edited by Teeth at 12:27:43 30-07-2006