Richard Dawkins - The God Delusion Page 18

  • Big-Swiss 23 Sep 2010 10:40:54 9,411 posts
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    Smuggo wrote:
    localnotail wrote:
    Of the whole paper? Wow. It must be a really, really shit publication, given how much time you spend on here. Is it one of those cat-tray-liner free sheets they make illegal immigrants thrust into the hands of uninterested passers-by on street corners?

    You've changed...


    got him right by his balls it seems!
  • localnotail 23 Sep 2010 10:45:19 23,072 posts
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    Smuggo wrote:
    localnotail wrote:
    Of the whole paper? Wow. It must be a really, really shit publication, given how much time you spend on here. Is it one of those cat-tray-liner free sheets they make illegal immigrants thrust into the hands of uninterested passers-by on street corners?

    You've changed...

    You said you liked it better when I was on top.
  • chopsen 23 Sep 2010 10:56:18 21,192 posts
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    Smuggo wrote:
    I've actually not been on EG that often for months

    Ooooh, you liar. You're always here.
  • localnotail 23 Sep 2010 10:58:17 23,072 posts
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    Smuggo wrote:
    Anyway, don't you have important work to do saving children from dangerous telephone cables and stuff?

    Meh, survival of the fittest and all that.
  • Mr_Sleep 23 Sep 2010 11:02:36 23,498 posts
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    I'm really sorry that I bumped this thread, it seems like it's going to stink up the forum for a while longer.
  • Deleted user 23 September 2010 19:34:14
    Orange wrote:

    No the most logicial reason for religion to exist is to control behaviour in a certain way. It is an act of authoritarianism, not logic. A way of subconsciously reinforcing the varying dictatorships humanity has had over the centuries (be it tribe elder, monarchy, papacy or whatever), that at the centre of all things should be one man whose word is law.

    Fear of death and pointlessness of existence does not have to involve God in the slightest. The point to existence can be tied to anything, be it natural cycle of the universe or whatever. Viewing death as some kind of terrible thing is not remotely "logical", if anything it is irrational to view it as anything other than a complete unknown and to assume such an unknown must automatically be feared or need a paternalistic figure controlling everything is ignorant.

    I'd argue, intuitively, that fear came before control. Control thrives on coercing victims of fear. Not that I know the ins-and-outs of anthropology and psychology on the subject. 'Religion' is control, but 'faith' or w/e could have come from, as Dawkins talks about, a 'meme' etc, a biological sympathy.

    Of course death being viewed as terrible is logical, in one sense. No, it's not 'classically rational', but we never are. It's logical in that death is unknown, hence it is scary. It removes us from everything we know. To say that, because this is not objectively rational, it has no internal, coherent and understandable logic is to ignore what we really are. Emotions ARE ignorant. Fear IS an emotion. We are not purely rational beings.
  • redistuo 7 Nov 2010 10:23:29 3 posts
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    Going to the book itself, I found it a difficult read, and didn't get past the early stages, despite an avowed aversion to organised religion. I found Dawkins' tone rather smug and patronising.
  • heyyo 7 Nov 2010 10:52:02 14,356 posts
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    RedSparrows wrote:
    Orange wrote:

    No the most logicial reason for religion to exist is to control behaviour in a certain way. It is an act of authoritarianism, not logic. A way of subconsciously reinforcing the varying dictatorships humanity has had over the centuries (be it tribe elder, monarchy, papacy or whatever), that at the centre of all things should be one man whose word is law.

    Fear of death and pointlessness of existence does not have to involve God in the slightest. The point to existence can be tied to anything, be it natural cycle of the universe or whatever. Viewing death as some kind of terrible thing is not remotely "logical", if anything it is irrational to view it as anything other than a complete unknown and to assume such an unknown must automatically be feared or need a paternalistic figure controlling everything is ignorant.

    I'd argue, intuitively, that fear came before control. Control thrives on coercing victims of fear. Not that I know the ins-and-outs of anthropology and psychology on the subject. 'Religion' is control, but 'faith' or w/e could have come from, as Dawkins talks about, a 'meme' etc, a biological sympathy.

    Of course death being viewed as terrible is logical, in one sense. No, it's not 'classically rational', but we never are. It's logical in that death is unknown, hence it is scary. It removes us from everything we know. To say that, because this is not objectively rational, it has no internal, coherent and understandable logic is to ignore what we really are. Emotions ARE ignorant. Fear IS an emotion. We are not purely rational beings.

    I can speak a little from the psychology perspective, death is scary for reasons RedSparrows suggests - death is absolute rejection. As humans we have the /need/ to be others (especially as infants, we depend on caregivers for survival) and the counterpart to this is the fear of being rejected, being separate from others (being killed).

    This is why captial punishment -or- solitary confinement is the most severe punishment. Both forcibly separate us from others (cf. monks who /choose/ to be seperate from others). As humans we have become self-aware of our ultimate fate (death will forcibly seperate us from others). This causes us angst in our life and we seek religious notions of heaven (and a God to permit entry) so that we can always be surrounded by other people.

    Bascially, the mother of all fears is rejection, death or solitary confinement is absolute rejection (so can be used as punishment), we negate the MOAF by creating notions of afterlife.
  • Deleted user 25 November 2010 10:54:52
    Post deleted
  • Deleted user 25 November 2010 10:54:52
    Post deleted
  • You-can-call-me-kal 27 Jan 2015 13:04:02 20,716 posts
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    Fairly entertaining 8 minutes::

    http://youtu.be/gW7607YiBso
  • iancognito 27 Jan 2015 13:54:03 2,476 posts
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    Also Dawkins is a gaytheist.
  • Khanivor 27 Jan 2015 13:55:54 44,563 posts
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    Mysticism I s just a game of religion without the rule book. Same load of bollocks based on not knowing what the fuck was going on, back in the day. Now based on needing to think everything has a reason and that ultimately, you are of importance to the universe.
  • TheSaint 27 Jan 2015 14:32:02 19,883 posts
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    jabberwoky wrote:
    quantum entanglement and the double slit experiment
    Sounds dirty.
  • Load_2.0 27 Jan 2015 14:42:51 32,067 posts
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    Dirty and baffling.
  • StarchildHypocrethes 27 Jan 2015 14:47:18 33,174 posts
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    Like a more extreme version of the 3-boobed lady in Total Recall?
  • CosmicFuzz 27 Jan 2015 14:51:52 32,585 posts
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    Two slits one quantum
  • DrStrangelove 27 Jan 2015 15:05:58 15,241 posts
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    TheSaint wrote:
    jabberwoky wrote:
    quantum entanglement and the double slit experiment
    Sounds dirty.
    I think it's some porn with lesbian scientists

    Edited by DrStrangelove at 15:08:43 27-01-2015
  • Khanivor 27 Jan 2015 15:16:09 44,563 posts
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    It's bollocks.
  • Saul_Iscariot 27 Jan 2015 16:40:49 3,794 posts
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    I have never seen Dawkins in the flesh, before I subscribe I demand proof of his, and my own existence.
  • Deleted user 27 January 2015 16:56:25
    jabberwoky wrote:
    It's bollocks.
    I would love to continue this intellectually scintillating discussion with you, but I have to watch some cement dry in the cellar.

    Have a nice day.
    In fairness that IS quite intelligent for K.
  • smugla 27 Jan 2015 17:02:46 2,276 posts
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    In this video series the currently accepted theories of physics and astrophysics are shaken to the core by a radical new theory of the fundamental forces in all matter

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EPlyiW-xGI
  • DrStrangelove 27 Jan 2015 18:10:48 15,241 posts
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    smugla wrote:
    In this video series the currently accepted theories of physics and astrophysics are shaken to the core by a radical new theory of the fundamental forces in all matter

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EPlyiW-xGI
    Sorry, but the above quotation and "this will change the world" and new age ambient soundtrack and all that just screams "BULLSHIT".
  • FWB 27 Jan 2015 18:20:50 56,344 posts
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    Think peer reviewed papers are the best way to get your ideas across. Not a poorly edited Youtube video with comments disabled.

    So ground breaking, nobody is allowed to talk about.
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