Page 9 • Calling all grammer nazi's!! • Eurogamer.net • General site discussion • Eurogamer.net

Carlo 30 May 2007 15:06:24 21,801 posts
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9 fucking pages of this shit?

O_O

Stickman 30 May 2007 15:07:34 29,986 posts
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I'm with you on the use of question marks for tag questions.

It's just not a tag question! Sorry for daring to disagree with *gasp* a teacher.

FWB 30 May 2007 15:08:42 56,369 posts
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Call it what you want. Not going to stop you but it does say Nazis on the front door.

Deleted user 30 May 2007 15:09:36

urizen seems to have the best all round answer there imho.

Does copywriter/proof-reader trump teacher btw?

Deleted user 30 May 2007 15:11:44

FWB wrote:
Merci. At least someone is.

And yeah... to be REALLY pedantic "innit" is incorrect English.

9 fucking pages of this shit?

My livelihood depends on it .

Edited by FWB at 15:07:47 30-05-2007

Mine too

I don't agree that it's incorrect English - not inherently. It's just a written version of how it's spoken in rapid colloquial speech (i.e. fully connected speech) - see also wanna, gonna etc

If you were to write these in formal writing (an essay, or application etc), you'd be an idiot; but in informal writing, when you often stylistically mimic the nature of spoken English, then it's fine.

FWB 30 May 2007 15:12:00 56,369 posts
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Don't know. How big is your cock?

Deleted user 30 May 2007 15:13:22

kalel wrote:
urizen seems to have the best all round answer there imho.

Does copywriter/proof-reader trump teacher btw?

Yes, but not DELTA / CELTA trainer!

/buffs "biggish fish in a small pond" badge

Edit: FWB, fella, relax! Do you not have discussions like this in your staffroom?

Edited by urizen at 15:14:30 30-05-2007

FWB 30 May 2007 15:17:15 56,369 posts
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urizen wrote:
I don't agree that it's incorrect English - not inherently. It's just a written version of how it's spoken in rapid colloquial speech (i.e. fully connected speech) - see also wanna, gonna etc

Most, but not all, connected speech is not written. "Gonna" and "wanna" are never written.* Would I correct someone for saying it? No, never. In fact its something I have taught in classes as it is extremely common. I would correct the written form though while noting that it is used in informal settings. Native speakers don't make mistakes.

As for "innit"... I hate the word itself and would like to build special camps for those who use it.

*And I am referring to Nazis rules here. I will use them in text messages and emails.

EDIT: All the time.

One of my favourites... present perfect and Americans' refusal to use it.

Edited by FWB at 15:22:17 30-05-2007

Deleted user 30 May 2007 15:23:13

FWB wrote:
Don't know. How big is your cock?

About 7 feet.

Deleted user 30 May 2007 15:25:34

FWB wrote:

urizen wrote:
I don't agree that it's incorrect English - not inherently. It's just a written version of how it's spoken in rapid colloquial speech (i.e. fully connected speech) - see also wanna, gonna etc

Most, but not all, connected speech is not written. "Gonna" and "wanna" are never written.* Would I correct someone for saying it? No, never. In fact its something I have taught in classes as it is extremely common. I would correct the written form though.

*And I am referring to Nazis rules here. I will use them in text messages and emails.

EDIT: All the time.

One of my favourites... present perfect and Americans' refusal to use it.

Edited by FWB at 15:19:05 30-05-2007

I agree about connected speech. It's not only common - it's the nature of English. And it's fair enough to correct the written form as 80% of written discourse students write is formal, where it's inappropriate.

As for your comment on present perfect :-)

...another can of worms that shouldn't perhaps be opened.

Suffice to say, from my point of view (especially as I train teachers from all over the world), it' s important to recognise the way dialects diverge (remember your students are far more likely to be exposed to American English than British).

Edit: outside the classroom, I mean - media etc.

Edited by urizen at 15:26:41 30-05-2007

FWB 30 May 2007 15:27:23 56,369 posts
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Can't match that. Could slap my hemorrhoids on the table tho.

morriss 30 May 2007 15:28:16 71,293 posts
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CAn we use the correct term for 'tags' please? Adverbial Clauses they are. Yes.

morriss 30 May 2007 15:29:38 71,293 posts
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Carlo wrote:
9 fucking pages of this shit?

O_O

Someone doesn't grasp the concept of 'Calling all grammar Nazis', I see.

As in, if you're not one, you won't care. You know, like this thread won't really be your cup of tea. That sort of thing. Innit (?)

Deleted user 30 May 2007 15:31:03

morriss wrote:
CAn we use the correct term for 'tags' please? Adverbial Clauses they are. Yes.

Stop baiting :-)

An adverbial clause can be all *manner* of things, so long as it modifies the verb. It's a broad term.

Edited by urizen at 15:32:11 30-05-2007

morriss 30 May 2007 15:31:51 71,293 posts
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urizen wrote:

morriss wrote:
CAn we use the correct term for 'tags' please? Adverbial Clauses they are. Yes.

Stop baiting

An adverbial clause can be all *manner* of things, so long as it modifies the verb. It's a general term.

Not if you're doing a tree structure it isn't.

Stickman 30 May 2007 15:32:43 29,986 posts
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Oh, now it's ooooooooon!

FWB 30 May 2007 15:32:53 56,369 posts
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urizen wrote:
Suffice to say, from my point of view (especially as I train teachers from all over the world), it' s important to recognise the way dialects diverge (remember your students are far more likely to be exposed to American English than British).

Edit: outside the classroom, I mean - media etc.

Indeed. Although I generally speak southern British-English I do highlight American pronunciation. Aside from the exposure, it helps with some of those unruly vowels I have... grass et al.

Deleted user 30 May 2007 15:35:24

I'm not sure what you mean by that - if we're talking applied linguistics.

A 'tag question' is something different from an adverbial clause; it's essentially an extension of the verb which serves one of two broad functions. An adverbial clause can be made up of any number of words, which modifies the verb in a variety of ways to indicate time, place, manner etc.

morriss 30 May 2007 15:36:31 71,293 posts
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No urizen is right. But when drawing tree diagrams recognising the adverbial group and listing the Heads and Dependants can be tricky.

(He walked) to the pub.

A:g

H

rep______________DEP:g
to___________________the pub

Edited by morriss at 15:37:30 30-05-2007

Stickman 30 May 2007 15:38:26 29,986 posts
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This thread's just gone up to a whole new level.

morriss 30 May 2007 15:39:07 71,293 posts
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Stickman wrote:
This thread's just gone up to a whole new level.

Believe me, what I described there is the very basics of sentence analysis.

catterz 30 May 2007 15:40:24 8,763 posts
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morriss wrote:
No urizen is right. But when drawing tree diagrams recognising the adverbial group and listing the Heads and Dependants can be tricky.

(He walked) to the pub.

A:g

Hrep______________DEP:g
to___________________the pub

Edited by morriss at 15:37:30 30-05-2007

Aren't we missing a comma?

morriss 30 May 2007 15:41:52 71,293 posts
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@catterz: no.

This is the stuff I had to know by heart from my Grammar exam. Learning English in a foreign country is hard.

catterz 30 May 2007 15:42:54 8,763 posts
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I was thinking somewhere between the first and second word.

"No, urizen is right." reads much better.

morriss 30 May 2007 15:43:43 71,293 posts
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catterz wrote:
I was thinking somewhere between the first and second word.

"No, urizen is right." reads much better.

Oh, sorry. Yes, a comma was needed.

catterz 30 May 2007 15:44:14 8,763 posts
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My first pro nazi.

/weeps

Tears of joy.

Deleted user 30 May 2007 15:45:37

morriss wrote:
@ catterz: no.

This is the stuff I had to know by heart from my Grammar exam. Learning English in a foreign country is hard.

That's actually pretty interesting - and I've never really covered parsing to that depth, more of an "on the ground" applied approach as a trainer.

Popzeus 30 May 2007 15:49:20 8,425 posts
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O_o

/hands in Grammar Police badge

/reports for extra training

morriss 30 May 2007 15:49:31 71,293 posts
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This is basically the root of my teachings:

In fact, scroll down to 4.A and click on the mini-diagrams before the sentences themselves. Once the Java-Applet is loaded click Expand Tree and you should get the whole sentence analysed to base level.

Edited by morriss at 15:53:52 30-05-2007

Deleted user 30 May 2007 15:54:58

Stickman wrote:

I have been teaching this for the last 4 years.

Sigh. No wonder the language is going down hill.

You said it.

mehh, the dangers of pedantry.

And he's been teaching this shit for FOUR YEARS, don't ya know?

Calling all grammer nazi's!! • Page 9