Following Exercise advice and weight loss Page 5

  • Psychotext 21 Jul 2007 14:21:12 70,155 posts
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    groovemeister wrote:
    Sorry, gotta stop you there. Maximuscle is highly overpriced. All-in-1 has a very cheap option: http://www.sports-nutrition.net/store.php?sub=3&id=19 as does MyProtein: http://www.myprotein.co.uk/bulk-supplies/unflavoured-whey/21-07-2007
    Yeah, I did say they're expensive. I've heard a lot of horror stories about cheaper places packing their powders with all sorts of filler rather than quality ingredients.

    But yeah, if you find someone you can trust and they're cheaper then obviously go with them. =)
  • RichDC 21 Jul 2007 14:26:27 9,106 posts
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    Holland and Barret stock the big tubs of Body Fortress Whey Protein for about a tenner. Tastes good too. :)
  • Psychotext 21 Jul 2007 14:39:09 70,155 posts
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    Post deleted at 15:53:44 21-07-2007
  • Psychotext 21 Jul 2007 15:56:15 70,155 posts
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    I will say that you can pick up heart rate monitors for very little money these days. If you plan on doing a lot of training outside of a gym then they're well worth the money. Don't even have to go for anything fancy either.

    Most of them you can set a target heart rate range on and it'll beep at you when you're not in it. Pretty simple to work out you need to speed up or slow down as appropriate then.

    Edited by Psychotext at 15:57:56 21-07-2007
  • Psychotext 21 Jul 2007 16:08:20 70,155 posts
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    hypernova wrote:
    I had a friend/colleague who was also at the gym a while back and we'd mention things like heart rate. He too had the problem where doing the slightest amount of work raised his heart rate above the recommended. To mantain my target heart rate, it always feels like I'm doing barely anything, which seems odd.
    It's not very helpful, but I was a lot like this before I started training seriously. My resting heart rate used to be about 95 because I was unfit and pretty much continuously stressed out. After a few months I found that my resting heart rate was much lower and my body reacted in a more expected way to put myself into the heart rate zones that I wanted to be in.

    It's also worth stating that again, you don't have to be doing things perfectly to get results. If you're 10 bpm above your target rate but it's steady there then it's better to hold that than reduce your workrate to a lower level and have your heart rate going all over the place so you spend more time trying to change it than actually exercising.
  • Psychotext 21 Jul 2007 16:21:23 70,155 posts
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    hypernova wrote:
    @Psychotext and Groove

    Ah, I expected the gym sensors might be inaccurate, but I didn't realise the recommended heart rate thing was slightly negotiable. I just thought it was set in stone.
    There are actually some more accurate calculations out there for working out targets based on providing more data, but it's too easy to get caught up on that kinda thing.
  • The-Bodybuilder 21 Jul 2007 16:50:49 17,871 posts
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    cubbymoore wrote:
    Ha, coming from a guy who advised using free weights for fat loss.

    Well considering resistance training has been shown to elevate resting metabolic rate (due to th e high neural, muscular and endocrine demands) for as long as 48hrs, whilst "aerobics" (urgh, such a mis-used name) fat loss stops after you stop jogging, but changes the characteristics of FT fibres into slow twitch-type (thus reducing muscle size and resting metabolic rate),I would say modern science prooves him to be right.

    And for the thread starter, how's about posting your nutritional plan. You can exercise till your blue in the face, but if your nutritional intake is supbar (notice I ised the word "subpar", not just saying if you eat too much), no fat loss is gonna happen.

    Oh, and the age old crap of "if you eat less, you'll loose fight" is so wrong on so many levels.
  • piratebrido 21 Jul 2007 16:57:32 123 posts
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    I tried Judo this morning on an empty stomach. When I say "I tried" I really mean "I slept in and had no time for breakfast". Man I was fucked!

    I am seriously thinking about getting some protein product for post training. Afterwards I usually go home and not eat something adequate as I cant be arsed really. I start training most nights at 6 and finish at 8, get home about 9. I go straight from work so I have nothing to eat prior apart from what I have at lunch. I usually eat chicken for lunch for the protein, but I could really do with a carb boost.

    I am spending a lot of thought on my diet at the moment as I want to give my body the correct fuel since I do train it quite hard.
  • Foregone-Reality 21 Jul 2007 16:58:25 2,216 posts
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    I feel that it would be a very bad idea to over-complicate the matter of weight loss.

    That's why I've always been an avid believer of the 220 - age heartrate and eating less + exercise more = Weight loss.

    Maybe I'm a fool? I don't know..
  • Psychotext 21 Jul 2007 17:44:33 70,155 posts
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    Foregone Reality wrote:
    Maybe I'm a fool? I don't know..
    Not at all, the only problem is that if done wrong there comes a stage where the body says "right fuck this, I think I'm starving so I'm going to store as much fat as possible for the long term and burn a little muscle in the short term".

    Which is why it's generally better to exercise than eat like a rabbit. =)
  • The-Bodybuilder 22 Jul 2007 01:50:26 17,871 posts
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    groovemeister wrote:
    faster running converts fibres which would be used for hypertrophic muscle growth (fast twitch) into 'slow twitch'

    Er, no?

    Faster running (sprinting) uses high-threshold muscle fibres (FT). The energy pathway being used is the ATP-CP and anearobic glycolosis.
    Such demands increases theacidity in the blood (lactic acid) which modern studies have shown to be not the evil they are. In fact, Lactic-unduced training not only increases metabolic demand, but also releases the IGF-1 growth hormone, which have been shown to mobilize adopise deposits, along with it's muscle growth ability.

    "Cardio", is greatly overexaggerated, along with "heart zone" training. All this is due to the cardiovascular doctrine that has dominated the west (forgotten the Dr's name).

    I also heard someone give the advice of training pre-breakfast, which is one of the worst advices to give. Not only is the body not in a ready state, but the body had been in a catabolic state throughout the whole night.
    All that will happen is simply the body will prefebly burn muscle to sustain energy and get amino acid. The last thing any fat loss person wants is muscle loss.
  • Psychotext 22 Jul 2007 02:00:33 70,155 posts
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    Those reading may notice that there's confusion regarding bits of this. It's because the science on the whole is SHIT. =)

    (Which is why I encourage people not to get too caught up in it)
  • The-Bodybuilder 22 Jul 2007 02:02:19 17,871 posts
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    groovemeister wrote:
    There's also the issue of muscle preservation, if you're a lifter. Excess muscle (more than the average mele) is hard to preserve when losing weight.

    This can be readily solved, as any tissue seen as "excess" by the body will simply be used. The objective is to make the body aware that of the extra muscle, via effecient muscle innervation.

    People make the mistake of doing "high reps" during fat lass (which is completey the opposite of what is needed).
    To preserve muscle, neural exercises and training that activate high-threshold motor units should be used, such as that of heavy lifting, dynamic/explosive movements, along with "eccentric-dominant" exercises, as these increase motor unit activation and potentiation.

    To put it simply, if someone has a large chest, but the innervation of that chest is 25% (figuratively speaking), the body sees 75"% of the pecs as "unnecessary".
    However if you train your body into innervating 75% of the muscle, that means only 25% is uneeded.

    I've just finished a 8-week fatloss phase, going down from 14% bodyfat to now 8% (missed my target of 7%), without loosing any muscle size and strength in my upper body, and gaining even more size and strength in my legs.
  • Psychotext 22 Jul 2007 02:06:14 70,155 posts
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    Out of interest, did you manage to lose all that fat without any muscle mass at all going with it? Because I've never spoken to anyone that's managed to do that before and I'd love to know what you were doing to pull it off.

    On another note, are you lucky enough not to look like a skelly on your face when you drop below 10%? Anything below 11 and my face makes me look like I've got a terminal illness. =D

    Edited by Psychotext at 02:08:57 22-07-2007
  • The-Bodybuilder 22 Jul 2007 02:08:12 17,871 posts
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    Psychotext wrote:
    Those reading may notice that there's confusion regarding bits of this. It's because the science on the whole is SHIT. =)

    (Which is why I encourage people not to get too caught up in it)

    You encourage people not to get caught up in the science that gaves them knowledge and understand of what is needed?

    If anything, the biggest reason why people don't reach the physical composition is BECAUSE they avoid the science, and rather someone just give them the simple answers they need that suits thier life perfectly.

    If everyone knew the science, then there would be no problem.
    But people like to avoid the "whys", but quickly jump to the "Hows". That's why people go around selling books based on 80s dogma, and people will eat it up then still wonder why they're fat, skinny and weak.

    One big problem of today is that people still follow the "eat less, loss more weight" dogma, which is not always the case (many people are actually chronis undereaters, which is a huge part of the problem).

    Most people don't even realize that many sumo wrestlers eat only one meal a day.
  • Psychotext 22 Jul 2007 02:12:09 70,155 posts
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    The Bodybuilder wrote:
    You encourage people not to get caught up in the science that gaves them knowledge and understand of what is needed?

    If anything, the biggest reason why people don't reach the physical composition is BECAUSE they avoid the science, and rather someone just give them the simple answers they need that suits thier life perfectly.
    You're talking about the difference between bodybuilders and pro athletes and normal people. Learn all the science and live your life by it and you'll do great, but...

    Most normal people want to lose a bit of fat and tone up. The hardcore stuff which you're discussing is completely irrelevant to it. You're not talking about losing a few inches around the waist, you're talking about a level where you know almost every measurement on your body and precise diets with x% carbs, x% fat, x% protein etc. Specific targeted exercise, rest periods and much more.

    Most people get to the too much hassle stage and just give up.

    Edited by Psychotext at 02:13:14 22-07-2007
  • The-Bodybuilder 22 Jul 2007 02:14:04 17,871 posts
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    Psychotext wrote:
    Out of interest, did you manage to lose all that fat without any muscle mass at all going with it? Because I've never spoke to anyone that's managed to do that before and I'd love to know what you were doing to pull it off.

    It's very bloody easy, I'll tell you that. I know many (who know thier stuff) and can do it better than I do.
    I'm limited by time and budget (a student).

    I'll tell you, 99% of people use ideas that are not only based on 80s stuff, but based on western doctrine (stubbornly based on cardiovascular ability, which is good but WAYYYYY overhyped).
    The russians knew the right physiology decades ago.

    I'll tell you after I've slept off.

    But to give you an idea, about last year, I dropped from 16-17% bodyfat to 10% bodyfat using the whole jogging in the morning and all over dogma. In the process, I lost a HUGE amount of muscle mass (lost over an inch of muscle in my arms).

    It all comes down to the manipulation of one's metabolic ability.
  • The-Bodybuilder 22 Jul 2007 02:28:43 17,871 posts
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    Psychotext wrote:
    The Bodybuilder wrote:
    You encourage people not to get caught up in the science that gaves them knowledge and understand of what is needed?

    If anything, the biggest reason why people don't reach the physical composition is BECAUSE they avoid the science, and rather someone just give them the simple answers they need that suits thier life perfectly.
    You're talking about the difference between bodybuilders and pro athletes and normal people. Learn all the science and live your life by it and you'll do great, but...

    Most normal people want to lose a bit of fat and tone up. The hardcore stuff which you're discussing is completely irrelevant to it. You're not talking about losing a few inches around the waist, you're talking about a level where you know almost every measurement on your body and precise diets with x% carbs, x% fat, x% protein etc. Specific targeted exercise, rest periods and much more.

    Most people get to the too much hassle stage and just give up.

    Edited by Psychotext at 02:13:14 22-07-2007

    No I'm not. I'm merely giving the scient behind it.
    The only thing I measure is my bodyfat and waist. And the people I deal with (in fairness, athletes) don't know the full science (I tell them, but many don't want to hear).

    It all comes down to basic habits.

    Nutrition:
    Eat 5-6 meals per day. There is no excuse.
    During school time, I'm at uni full-time (I live in essex, and travel all the way to middlesex via public transprot), working 18hrs per week, teaching and planning for stuff at church, dealing and planning with athletes, whilt doing my own assignments, and I STILL can eat 6 times a day, pretty easily.

    Eat veggies and fruit with everymeal.
    You can use stuff like Greens+ (powdered veg) as a supplement. Most carbs should be fibre based, as in veggie based.

    Eat protein with EVERY MEAL.

    Eat more "good fats" than bad ones.
    Basicallt avoid transfat. Use olive oil, flaxseed oil and fish oil supplement. In fact, current studies (so new, they aren't out yet) show fatloss and calorie burning of up to 400 calories per day just through fish oil supplementation.

    Eat starchy carbs within the few hours after training.
    So your rise, pasta. bread and potatoes after training.

    Sleep properly.

    Training:
    Base on resistance training.

    increase density each week (so rest less each week)

    use compound lifts.

    train either whole body or upper/lower body. 90% of people DO NOT need to use a split routine (like monday is chest day, tuesday is biceps day, e.t.c.)

    Rest appropriately.

    Change exercise every month.

    That's all.
    I've only slightly touched on the science behind it all. No calories counting, no macro-nutrient or micro-nutrient composition, no trying to fix dysfunctions, no hard science.

    Simple habits, excellent results. No jogging pre-breakfast, or eating 3 bowls of kellogs per day, or starvation methods. No long jogginf over heals, or heart rate monitoring on "heart zones".

    I promise results with these simple HABITS.
  • heyyo 22 Jul 2007 02:34:39 14,356 posts
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    What's the link between strenous exercise, lifting weights stuff like that and hair loss?

    Read something along the lines off 'lift weights and you'll suffer early hair loss' i'd have thought that keeping in shape via exercise/weights would be beneficial?
  • The-Bodybuilder 22 Jul 2007 09:32:59 17,871 posts
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    heyyo! wrote:
    What's the link between strenous exercise, lifting weights stuff like that and hair loss?

    Read something along the lines off 'lift weights and you'll suffer early hair loss' i'd have thought that keeping in shape via exercise/weights would be beneficial?

    Never heard of it personally.
    Unless someone else wants to chime in on this, I really doubt there's a link, unless there's a link with cortisol (a stress hormone) and hair loss or something.
  • piratebrido 22 Jul 2007 11:20:55 123 posts
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    Bodybuilders advice seems solid to me, and goes along with all I have read. I tried going to Judo without breakfast and it was horrible, infact I felt to weak I skipped BJJ afterwards. Couple of things Sumos do:

    Skip Breakfast - keeps their metabolic rate low as you are depriving your body of fuel to kick start it. If I miss breakfast I can last till lunch easy. If I eat porridge or half a melon for breakfast, come 10.30 or so I am starving and can think of nothing else (Good time for that second meal out of 5-6 a day!)

    Eating one meal - big binge blowout here. Take the body out of starvation mode thus it stores the food as fat. Constantly supplying the body with fuel is the more efficient way, keeps the motor running.

    Sleeping after eating - When you sleep your body doesn't require so much energy, and all the fuel has to go somewhere? Yup, sends it to its stores as fat.


    What could be useful bodybuilder is list some of the meals you eat as your 6 a day? Especially when you are out and about and don't have access to a kitchen.
  • Derblington 22 Jul 2007 11:28:46 35,010 posts
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    piratebrido wrote:
    What could be useful bodybuilder is list some of the meals you eat as your 6 a day? Especially when you are out and about and don't have access to a kitchen.
    Make them before hand and take them with you?

    From everything I've read all meals should consist of protein and carbs and at least 3 of the 6 must have veggies. Plus, you need to drink a lot of water all day too. If you really can't make all those meals then you can use MRPs but while they reduce preparation time they cost a lot more.
  • The-Bodybuilder 22 Jul 2007 16:20:30 17,871 posts
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    Derblington wrote:
    piratebrido wrote:
    What could be useful bodybuilder is list some of the meals you eat as your 6 a day? Especially when you are out and about and don't have access to a kitchen.
    Make them before hand and take them with you?

    From everything I've read all meals should consist of protein and carbs and at least 3 of the 6 must have veggies. Plus, you need to drink a lot of water all day too. If you really can't make all those meals then you can use MRPs but while they reduce preparation time they cost a lot more.

    Exactly.
    I don't drive, so I don't even have the luxury of a boot to store my food (if I did, it would make things a WHOLE lot easier).

    As for my travel food, I base it on 2 things (based on my student budget, and portability as I need to fit into my bag).

    1. Mixed nuts (80g-100g) with 2 bananas, 1 apple, and a few seedless grapes.

    2. Custom shakes made out of;
    1 cup of cottage cheese in blender
    3 egg whites
    1 whole egg
    1 spoonfull of olive oil
    1 spoonfull of flaxseed oil
    2 scoops of protein powder (a potent mix of whey and casien. I suggest a site called www.myprotien.co.uk for anyone in need of some protein of great quality for a good price).
    scoop of Greens+ (veggie powder. H&B sell them, but I'm not sure if they are as good as Greens+)
    a fistful of mixed frozen berries (you can get them for cheap online)
    with milk (if you're lactose intolerant like me, search for lactase enzymes. They are cheap and great for anyone lactose intolerant).

    Blend it and but it into 2 500ml bottles and you're good to go.

    That's 3 healthy meals during the day. Now add breakfast and dinner, and you have atleast 5 meals a day, all with convenience.
    I tend to add an extra meal a day plus a post-workout shake, making my frequency to 6-7, but that's just me.

    You can buy all the stuff and bulk, for cheap and they'll last for weeks.
  • Rusta 22 Jul 2007 16:32:32 167 posts
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    Skip the cardio and do weights, great read here

    http://www.mikementzer.com/bodyfat.html
  • Psychotext 22 Jul 2007 17:40:34 70,155 posts
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    Rusta wrote:
    Skip the cardio and do weights, great read here...
    Skipping it entirely isn't the best idea. Cardio does do a couple of things for you that weight training doesn't do.

    1: Increases capillary network (blood vessels that supply the muscle cells with fuel and oxygen)
    2: Increases aerobic capacity
    3: Increases muscle mitochondria
    4: Increases cardiac output

    (among others)

    Though these can be achieved with certain types of weight training, doing one and completely neglecting the other isn't a good idea.
  • Rusta 22 Jul 2007 17:44:45 167 posts
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    Psychotext wrote:
    Rusta wrote:
    Skip the cardio and do weights, great read here...
    Skipping it entirely isn't the best idea. Cardio does do a couple of things for you that weight training doesn't do.

    1: Increases capillary network (blood vessels that supply the muscle cells with fuel and oxygen)
    2: Increases aerobic capacity
    3: Increases muscle mitochondria
    4: Increases cardiac output

    (among others)

    Though these can be achieved with certain types of weight training, doing one and completely neglecting the other isn't a good idea.

    I do agree, I do cardio aswell, I like the feeling of achievement it gives. Some people only do weight training and look great for it. If the OP continues with cardio and brings in some compound weight training he should improve his upper body.

    Edited by Rusta at 17:46:44 22-07-2007
  • The-Bodybuilder 22 Jul 2007 18:02:20 17,871 posts
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    Rusta wrote:
    Skip the cardio and do weights, great read here

    http://www.mikementzer.com/bodyfat.html

    Be weary of all things mentzer-related.
  • Rusta 22 Jul 2007 18:08:26 167 posts
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    This guy does well with no cardio

    http://wwwneilmctcom.blogspot.com/
  • Psychotext 22 Jul 2007 18:33:16 70,155 posts
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    Rusta wrote:
    This guy does well with no cardio
    Yeah, but you can be muscly as hell and still be unfit. I think I could take him in the 400m. ;)
  • MrWorf 22 Jul 2007 18:34:59 64,144 posts
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    Anyone know whtat that creatin stuff is like?

    I was thinking about picking some up as it's supposed to give you big muscles.
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