iMacs • Non-Gaming • Apple, Mac, and iPod • Eurogamer.net

HitchHiker 15 Jan 2004 16:08:37 2,892 posts
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I've been thinking of getting and iMac to see what all the fuss is about but being a family man, I don't have wads of cash to throw at it. My PC and consoles are my gaming platforms, so it will be used for the web, maybe email and just mucking about.

There are quite a few going on Ebay and for less than Ł200, I could pick up a G3/333 with 128Mb RAM. The thing is, being a PC fanboy for so long, I havn't a clue when it comes to Mac specs and performance.

Can anyone throw some light on this and compare these apples to my oranges? ;o)

What are the difference between OS8, OS9, OSX?
Will 128Mb be enough for OSX?

Again, I'm not planning to play HL2 or Doom 3 on it, just internet stuff I suppose, unless I get bitten by the Apple Bug.

Cheers peeps,

HH.

Edited by HitchHiker at 16:09:31 15-01-2004

MikeD 15 Jan 2004 16:18:29 10,063 posts
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OSX is rather a heavy OS you need quite a hefty machine for it to run smoothly.

Why do you want a mac anyway, a normal pc can be used for browsing and shit too, right?

HitchHiker 15 Jan 2004 16:23:22 2,892 posts
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MikeD wrote:
Why do you want a mac anyway, a normal pc can be used for browsing and shit too, right?

Yep, my PC is quite capable. Just curiosity really and maybe something nice 'n easy for my wife to switch on and start browsing without having to worry about XP accounts and crap like that. Not that I know that it will be simpler, hence not going out and buying a new super duper iMac.

HH.

Nemesis 15 Jan 2004 16:23:53 20,312 posts
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Of all the Apple machines, I still love the iMac. It's my home machine and it's superb. It's a G4 based flatpanel one with the 800mhz G4 and 768MB of RAM.

OSX loves RAM and plenty of it. 256MB is standard on most machines, but adding in 512MB makes a big difference.

You could, purely as an example, pick up the eMac for Ł649. This'll give you...

1GHz PowerPC G4
128MB SDRAM
40GB Ultra ATA drive
DVD/CD-RW drive
ATI Radeon 7500
32MB DDR video memory
56K internal modem

Which isn't a bad start. Sling some another 512MB in there for 50 notes and you've got a fairly decent machine.

Alternatively, a lappie iBook for Ł849 gives you...

800MHz PowerPC G4
256K L2 cache (at 800MHz)
12-inch TFT Display
1024x768 resolution
256MB DDR266 memory
30GB Ultra ATA drive
DVD/CD-RW drive
ATI Mobility Radeon 9200
32MB video memory
56K internal modem
AirPort Extreme ready

The eMac is certainly the cheapest G4 box you can get hold of as a new machine. If you are going for OSX (which I started with myself) you'll probably be better off going for a G4 based processor. Both machines will set you in good stead and will run the current crop of games (Warcraft3, Medal of Honor, Call of Duty, Neverwinter Nights, UT, Age of Mythology, Max Payne etc) without any problems. Future stuff like Doom3 you will find hard to run without a G5 and a decent ATI 9800 I reckon.

So, you could (for example) see if you can get the first generation flatpan iMacs (which I've got) and they are fine.

This iMac ebay link for 600 quid isn't a bad start. I'd search a bit, but try to aim for a G4 if you.

MikeD 15 Jan 2004 16:30:32 10,063 posts
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I thought Call of Duty didn't run on linux/mac?

HitchHiker 15 Jan 2004 16:39:39 2,892 posts
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Not really wanting to spend more than Ł200, that's why I was looking at the G3s.

It's not important that it runs the latest games.

HH.

HitchHiker 15 Jan 2004 16:46:14 2,892 posts
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Just put a bit in for this one - Ł130 but it will probably go for a bit more.

HH.

HitchHiker 15 Jan 2004 17:04:11 2,892 posts
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WOPR wrote:

HitchHiker wrote:
Just put a bit in for this one - Ł130 but it will probably go for a bit more.

HH.
Shove a load of RAM in it and OS X should run OK on it. Not stellar performance but Panther runs a lot quicker than Jaguar ever did on my old G4 400.

WOPR: What do you think this one is worth?

HH.

HitchHiker 15 Jan 2004 17:12:03 2,892 posts
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WOPR wrote:

Carriage on this is Ł30 which takes the piss a little too. I'd hope that Ł130 gets it.

That's what I was thinking but as I don't know much about them I didn't want to miss out on a bargain.
Not going to bid much more on this one.

Postage is a bit steep but as it's a council that's selling and not an individual, they might negotiate on it.

HH.

HitchHiker 15 Jan 2004 17:27:49 2,892 posts
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Bugger.

Been outbid, now at Ł132.

Now, do I wait until the last 2 minutes and bung a bid in? ? ?

Hhhmmmmmmm. . .

HH.

Ps. Thanks for the info guys.

Edited by HitchHiker at 17:28:29 15-01-2004

eviltobz 15 Jan 2004 17:33:59 2,511 posts
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as far as tech specs go, the g3/4/5 processor line is completely different to the 80X86 line, so clock speeds aren't directly comparable, i'd guess that its roughly equivalent to 5-600mhz but one of our long standing mac evangelists like wopr could probably give you a much better idea of how things match up. however, stuff like ram and hard drive capacities aren't going to be much different to what you'd want to see on a pc, so as wopsie said, more memory is pretty much essential, and that hard drive is going to become quite limiting if you download much, want to rip your music collection into itunes, get a big photo/video collection going etc. so you might want to factor in some thoughts for external drives, or networking machines to use some of your pc's storage (very easy on panther, but i've not really used any other os versions to talk about them)

and an upgrade to panther (the latest version of osx) will set you back about a ton on the apple store. but it is a fun os

Edited by eviltobz at 17:34:37 15-01-2004

HitchHiker 15 Jan 2004 17:40:24 2,892 posts
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I'm planning to network through my router to my XP PC so storage shouldn't be a problem.
Hoping it's going to be as easy to do as it sounds

)

HH.

eviltobz 15 Jan 2004 17:48:19 2,511 posts
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aye, as long as there's something running dhcp (which our router does) then it can just see the pcs as soon as you plug the fucker in. any workgroups on the network just show up in the network bit in finder (the equivalent app to windows explorer) but i did find that the mac got a bit arsey about letting go of the network connection when my server crashed out whilst it was connected (which being ancient, crusty and underpowered it likes doing on a regular basis)

HitchHiker 15 Jan 2004 17:48:28 2,892 posts
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No, the one I'm bidding on is running OS9.1

Is that going to cause problems?

HH.

eviltobz 15 Jan 2004 17:51:50 2,511 posts
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dunno. i'm pretty sure it'll be possible, just likely to require a bit more setting up. but as you'll notice, theres a lot of advice to upgrade to panther floating around

MikeD 15 Jan 2004 17:55:12 10,063 posts
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eviltobz wrote:
dunno. i'm pretty sure it'll be possible, just likely to require a bit more setting up. but as you'll notice, theres a lot of advice to upgrade to panther floating around

If he's buying a machine for 130 pounds then purchasing panther would cost almost as much as his machine.

HitchHiker 15 Jan 2004 17:59:48 2,892 posts
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Lost the auction, went for Ł146 in the end.

Spoke to the seller on the phone and he has two more left, same spec just different colours, that he is planning to auction. He will sell me one for Ł150, what do you think?

Here's the spec -

# iMac 333 MHz Processor
# 64 MB RAM
# CD ROM Drive
# 6 GB Hard Drive
# 56k Modem
# 10/100Base Ethernet
# USB Ports
# 15" Display
# Head Phone and Speaker jack
# Great desk space saver
# Original Colour co-ordinated USB Keyboard And Mouse
# Mac OS 9.1
# Latest Firmware Upgrades
# Microsoft Office For OS
# Immaculate Condition
# iTunes

HH.

eviltobz 15 Jan 2004 17:59:52 2,511 posts
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MikeD wrote:
If he's buying a machine for 130 pounds then purchasing panther would cost almost as much as his machine.

yep. doesn't make it any less worthwhile as a piece of software tho, and wopr has already told us that he's run it on a similar spec machine successfully.

Edited by eviltobz at 18:00:39 15-01-2004

MikeD 15 Jan 2004 18:02:54 10,063 posts
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eviltobz wrote:

MikeD wrote:
If he's buying a machine for 130 pounds then purchasing panther would cost almost as much as his machine.

yep. doesn't make it any less worthwhile as a piece of software tho, and wopr has already told us that he's run it on a similar spec machine successfully.

Edited by eviltobz at 18:00:39 15-01-2004

True, but what he also could do is run yellowdog, Mandrake, gentoo or another linux distro that runs on PPC.

MikeD 15 Jan 2004 18:06:30 10,063 posts
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WOPR wrote:
And MikeD, you obviously hate Macs so why do you keep commenting on them?

I hate macs? Because I once said a xserve g5 isn't as fast as an Opteron server machine?

or because I suggested that you don't need a mac for surfing the net?

Wow.

eviltobz 15 Jan 2004 18:10:40 2,511 posts
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MikeD wrote:
True, but what he also could do is run yellowdog, Mandrake, gentoo or another linux distro that runs on PPC.

yeah, but if you just want a linux distro then you aren't likely to be too concerned about it being mac/pc/sgi/ps2/xboxen/whatever. for me, the reason to get a mac is to use mac software on a mac os. osx's ability to run standard unix software was a compelling feature that helped to sell it to me, but it's the full apple experience i was after.

HitchHiker 15 Jan 2004 18:11:48 2,892 posts
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WOPR wrote:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2779394588&category=4603

Much nicer. Bigger hard drive, DVD, firewire, better KB and mouse, 400mhz... and it's boxed with disks.

and it's purple and the ladies love anything purple.

Maybe someone could lend you Panther for evaluation purposes.

Thanks WOPR, I have been watching that one too but it's more money than I can spare at the moment and the forseeable future. I'm sure it's a good price for what it is though.
Might have to have a chat to the wife ;o)

HH.

MikeD 15 Jan 2004 18:13:23 10,063 posts
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eviltobz wrote:

MikeD wrote:
True, but what he also could do is run yellowdog, Mandrake, gentoo or another linux distro that runs on PPC.
yeah, but if you just want a linux distro then you aren't likely to be too concerned about it being mac/pc/sgi/ps2/xboxen/whatever. for me, the reason to get a mac is to use mac software on a mac os. osx's ability to run standard unix software was a compelling feature that helped to sell it to me, but it's the full apple experience i was after.

Well, you say this, but I know some people that especially like the apple hardware. And it's design is indeed very nice.

One of my mates is considering getting one of those 24" screens and connecting it to his normal pc.

Nemesis 15 Jan 2004 18:19:49 20,312 posts
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MikeD wrote:
I thought Call of Duty didn't run on linux/mac?

Being ported and is currently working under both single and multi player.

HitchHiker 15 Jan 2004 18:22:52 2,892 posts
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eviltobz wrote:

yeah, but if you just want a linux distro then you aren't likely to be too concerned about it being mac/pc/sgi/ps2/xboxen/whatever. for me, the reason to get a mac is to use mac software on a mac os. osx's ability to run standard unix software was a compelling feature that helped to sell it to me, but it's the full apple experience i was after.

That's part of why I want one, the so called Apple experience.
I'm not planning on making it my main machine but if I like what I see then next time it comes to upgrading I might just go Apple instead of PC.

HH.

eviltobz 15 Jan 2004 18:24:12 2,511 posts
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furry muff. i'd agree about the design. people tend to appreciate external design (although i've always hated the original iWhack), but the design at the hardware level is also a lot better than the still text-based pc, but i did get the impression that hh, like myself, was after the full mac experience rather than just a random second bit of kit*.

certainly cant argue about the screens tho. bloody lovely

edit - * and lo it was confirmed.

Edited by eviltobz at 18:24:54 15-01-2004

MikeD 15 Jan 2004 19:18:14 10,063 posts
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WOPR wrote:
Tragically the Apple Cinema Displays don't work with PCs due to the clever but daft Apple connector. Apparently the next range of screens will have standard inputs.

Oh dear, I'd better warn him. Thanks.

He isn't the type to ask such questions in the store. Even though that would be common sense.

Nemesis 15 Jan 2004 19:49:21 20,312 posts
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No! How *could* you.

Ives is crying into his fruit juice. All that design work and *bonk* it's now all buggered.

I will pimp the iMac right up until I go get another one in a few years. This one is still doing a good job.

/pats Bob.

Good Lad.

eviltobz 16 Jan 2004 00:04:45 2,511 posts
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WOPR wrote:

MikeD wrote:

WOPR wrote:
Tragically the Apple Cinema Displays don't work with PCs due to the clever but daft Apple connector. Apparently the next range of screens will have standard inputs.

Oh dear, I'd better warn him. Thanks.

He isn't the type to ask such questions in the store. Even though that would be common sense.
The ADC connector is great because it's digital video, USB and power all in one cable. But of course they don't work with PCs. Apple should change this as their prices are good now.

won't this allow 'em to work on any pcs with a dvi, or is the apple dvi a different version to the pc dvi?

read_only 16 Jan 2004 21:00:08 147 posts
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I got a iMac about a year, just before they stopped selling the original design as new. Its a G3 600Mhz, has 640Mb RAM (came with 128Mb, 50 quid to upgrade) and it suits me fine for web, mail, the odd letter, etc. (And of course with OS X being unix based can actually use it like a proper computer when needed!)

In my opinion its just so much nicer, easier to use and more stable than a windows machine.

Have a friend with (I think) a G3 400Mhz which he finds alright for similar use. If you can find one eBay with OS X pre-installed I would go for that. Soooo much better than OS 9. Does need a bit more RAM but thats not too expensive.

Good luck.