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If they give me money I like em, If they take my money I hate em! If they don't interfere with my life I like em, If they fuck it up I hate em... pretty much how I see politics as a whole really but any increase in bureaucracy usally means more red tape and more money to fund it, thus higher taxes. One thing I think about, Money that probally would go to a deprived area in UK from UK tax payers would, maybe go to a more deprived part of europe(not nessarilly a bad thing if we all consider ourselves European rather than our individual nationalities but I don't think alot of us Europeans(not just British) do) On the Euro, I don't think the ECB is flexible enough to accomodate the diverse economies of the individual countries such that I fear that we could be screwed to favour the majority. Obviously we could also benefit greatly if we are on the right side of one of those decisions |
What do you think of the European Union ? • Page 2
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GiarcYekrub 4,760 posts
Seen 3 months ago
Registered 15 years ago -
marilena 8,238 posts
Seen 2 weeks ago
Registered 18 years agoArcadiian wrote:
Headlines like "EU Bans Curly Bananas" and "EU Bans Hanging Baskets For Safety" rule the masses. It's always another "barmy Eurocratic law".
Actually, one of the reasons why I like Europe is the fact that they put so much effort into making things better - lots of laws to protect the environment, to eliminate sub-standard goods and so on. It's like having a well-intentioned Big Brother.
But I'm like TwistidChimp in that I don't really know much, I just think it makes more sense to unite countries than to separate them.
/sways too -
Merlinho 5,908 posts
Seen 2 years ago
Registered 16 years agoA few years ago, I was very pro-EU, being the keen language speaker and Europhile that I am.
However, having lived in Strasbourg for a year, and witnessed some, shall I say, unprofessional behaviour by our elected and unelected representatives, my opinions changed slightly.
Not sure if Otto will know what I'm talking about, but how it's possible to potentially vote on something important at 9am when you're dancing on the bar of Les Aviateurs at 5am, I'm not sure!
As nice as the EU parliament building is, the movement of all MEPs every week in 4 from Brussels to Strasbourg is in my opinion, just an unnecessary moneysink, with a large risk of expense claim abuse as well. -
Merlinho wrote:
Not sure if Otto will know what I'm talking about, but how it's possible to potentially vote on something important at 9am when you're dancing on the bar of Les Aviateurs at 5am, I'm not sure!
Commitment to the cause. I applaud it. -
GitSomE_UK 1,206 posts
Seen 7 days ago
Registered 17 years agoI've found the EU on the whole to be more about the rights of the individual rather than the rights of the corporate as we seem to support in this country.
As an island we seem content to wallow in past glories of WW2 and the World Cup and no longer invests in a long term strategic view of railways, health, roads, environment and so on.
We barely manufacture any goods, we have rapidly depleting natural resources (If not already gone), devolution of the UK is rapidly being seen as a viable option and as a people we are increasingly becoming lazy thus transforming into a nation dependant entirely on other countries for all aspects of our lives (Most supermarkets have around 3 days supplies then that's it).
It's inevitable that we'll join the EU as UK PLC has been asset stripped and paired down so much that IMO we'll be heavily dependant on the EU.
This is why there will never be a referendum as it'll happen regardless. -
Hunam 20,675 posts
Seen 9 hours ago
Registered 15 years agoTBF, i have no actual idea of what it's really about. Hence why i don't vote, sure everyone critisies us for not voting, but why should i give someone my support when i only have the vaguest of idea's of what they are doing. I don't vote because i don't know enough about politics, and it would be a bad vote. -
Merlinho wrote:
A few years ago, I was very pro-EU, being the keen language speaker and Europhile that I am.
However, having lived in Strasbourg for a year, and witnessed some, shall I say, unprofessional behaviour by our elected and unelected representatives, my opinions changed slightly.
Not sure if Otto will know what I'm talking about, but how it's possible to potentially vote on something important at 9am when you're dancing on the bar of Les Aviateurs at 5am, I'm not sure!
As nice as the EU parliament building is, the movement of all MEPs every week in 4 from Brussels to Strasbourg is in my opinion, just an unnecessary moneysink, with a large risk of expense claim abuse as well.
Human nature eh? I figure a good proportion of national MP's would also indulge in a bit of illicit(?) nookie. In fact, Joe Public is free to drop down a strip club and turn up late to work.
It amazes me we demand out esteemed (ha!) leaders be squeaky white and most of the population plays by 'anything goes'. Well, round my way anyway.
I'd be happier if our MP's in this country spent more time indulging the wank and less time fucking up our freedoms and bombing other countries for kicks.
/rant rant drunken twat back from pub etc. my future is a cabbie job
(sorry mate, i am ranting here, i mean i'm assuming all sorts about that bar lolol) -
TwistidChimp 8,825 posts
Seen 14 years ago
Registered 16 years agoWhile we're on the subject, can anyone suggest any decent reading material, books, essays, detailing the history, structure and powers of the EU. I'm looking through the Europa website but there's not much in the way of proper reading material. You'd think they'd have a few pdf's or something atleast .gif)
Edit - Offline reading I mean, so printable stuff or books ideally, chars folks. -
Khanivor wrote:
I think the Euro has done pretty much what the naysayers said it was going to do.
It's done fairly well as an international currency in the last few years but it's debatable if this has much to do with its strength or another currency's weakness.
What?! The Euro zone has broken up, hasn't gone into a long slump.
It's not growing as fast the UK but that was happening before the Euro. It's still a fairly 2-3% per year.
It has gained much strength in the international market as you said and the dollar has plumented against it. This isn't all good news.
However it has in no way done what the nay sayers were prediciting. The EU has not broken up into pieces. -
Telepathic.Geometry 12,422 posts
Seen 4 years ago
Registered 15 years agoMr Harvest wrote: I think the EU is great. And I'm all for a single currency though I can appreciate why most Brits aren't too keen on it.
+1 Except, I don't understand why Brits are so keen on sticking with Sterling. It is so fucking handy traveling around Europe when the money's the same, and it's such a fucking pain in the balls changing currency for visiting my little bro in London. >
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Khanivor 44,800 posts
Seen 2 days ago
Registered 20 years agoGitSomE UK wrote:
It's inevitable that we'll join the EU as UK PLC has been asset stripped and paired down so much that IMO we'll be heavily dependant on the EU.
More the other way round. Manufacturing is not the way to a strong modern economy. Services are. The UK is the world's financial capitol. -
Telepathic.Geometry wrote:
Mr Harvest wrote: I think the EU is great. And I'm all for a single currency though I can appreciate why most Brits aren't too keen on it.
+1 Except, I don't understand why Brits are so keen on sticking with Sterling. It is so fucking handy traveling around Europe when the money's the same, and it's such a fucking pain in the balls changing currency for visiting my little bro in London. >
There are sound economic reasons for keeping the pound at the moment all though the cycles should be ,erging so it wont be a long term exclusion.
The UK has always had a different economic cycle to the rest of the EU thanks to its relations with the US and the commonwealth countries. This cant be overcome overnight. -
heyyo 14,356 posts
Seen 4 years ago
Registered 16 years agoTelepathic.Geometry wrote:
Mr Harvest wrote: I think the EU is great. And I'm all for a single currency though I can appreciate why most Brits aren't too keen on it.
+1 Except, I don't understand why Brits are so keen on sticking with Sterling. It is so fucking handy traveling around Europe when the money's the same, and it's such a fucking pain in the balls changing currency for visiting my little bro in London. >
£1 = $2.02 motherfucking monies!! -
Khanivor wrote:
GitSomE UK wrote:
It's inevitable that we'll join the EU as UK PLC has been asset stripped and paired down so much that IMO we'll be heavily dependant on the EU.
More the other way round. Manufacturing is not the way to a strong modern economy. Services are. The UK is the world's financial capitol.
Yup and by the way we already are part of the EU. Look at your driving license or Passport for physical proof. We've been a member of the EU since conception.
EU and EC are different. -
Merlinho 5,908 posts
Seen 2 years ago
Registered 16 years agoRedPanda wrote:
Merlinho wrote:
A few years ago, I was very pro-EU, being the keen language speaker and Europhile that I am.
However, having lived in Strasbourg for a year, and witnessed some, shall I say, unprofessional behaviour by our elected and unelected representatives, my opinions changed slightly.
Not sure if Otto will know what I'm talking about, but how it's possible to potentially vote on something important at 9am when you're dancing on the bar of Les Aviateurs at 5am, I'm not sure!
As nice as the EU parliament building is, the movement of all MEPs every week in 4 from Brussels to Strasbourg is in my opinion, just an unnecessary moneysink, with a large risk of expense claim abuse as well.
Human nature eh? I figure a good proportion of national MP's would also indulge in a bit of illicit(?) nookie. In fact, Joe Public is free to drop down a strip club and turn up late to work.
It amazes me we demand out esteemed (ha!) leaders be squeaky white and most of the population plays by 'anything goes'. Well, round my way anyway.
I'd be happier if our MP's in this country spent more time indulging the wank and less time fucking up our freedoms and bombing other countries for kicks.
/rant rant drunken twat back from pub etc. my future is a cabbie job
(sorry mate, i am ranting here, i mean i'm assuming all sorts about that bar lolol)
I think you're overassuming. To be fair, I'm probably overassuming as well, but I know that MEPs get a fairly big budget for their trips to Strasbourg, and I'm not really sure how monitored the expenditure is. Also, I knew Council of Europe representatives who got a great budget for going to places like Latvia and basically saw it as a moneyspinner, because it was impossible to spend that much money there.
But really, when I'm in work the next day, I'm not out until 5am, that would be unprofessional, and I actually wouldn't be able to do my job. And I'm not a elected representative of my constituency. When you elect for someone, is it unreasonable to expect them to be sober when they're using the power you've bestowed on them? Maybe we should ask Charles Kennedy's constituency.
Insert edit: I said the wrong European institution and it was a bad mistake when discussing potential misdemeanours, therefore edited. -
Shinji 5,902 posts
Seen 8 years ago
Registered 20 years agoKhanivor wrote:
More the other way round. Manufacturing is not the way to a strong modern economy. Services are. The UK is the world's financial capitol.
All things in moderation. The UK's lurch out of manufacturing and into services has been too fast and too absolute, and has left large portions of the population in semi-skilled service jobs which are hugely threatened by cheaper workforces in emerging economic regions.
Germany, Japan and South Korea all provide strong examples of economies which have managed to maintain a healthy balance of manufacturing and services - and even though outsourcing to China and other such regions is increasingly common at the low-skilled end, they generally keep the skilled jobs, the design jobs and the profits in their own nations.
I have a nagging suspicion that in the next few decades a large swathe of the British workforce is going to suffer badly from our government's insistence on focusing on the "knowledge economy" at the expense of all other sectors. -
Khanivor 44,800 posts
Seen 2 days ago
Registered 20 years agoOh, I agree totally. And I don't think the UK has abandoned manufacturing altogether at all, people just believe it has when they get bombarded by media wankfest over shite like Rover closing down.
And I'm not sure the move has been too quick, rather the government has been too slow in retraining people or changing the academic sylabus. I mean, FFS, the government wants to make things more, shit, forgotten, the word, hands-on-based. The UK may need more plumbersbut a) there's the EU and b) we need our kids taught smart stuff, not cheap and easy stuff where it's easy to screw over results for short-term political gains.
Begins with a V. Fuck > -
Shinji 5,902 posts
Seen 8 years ago
Registered 20 years agoVocational? -
Khanivor 44,800 posts
Seen 2 days ago
Registered 20 years agoThat's the fucker 
Better make this the last beer, gots to drive home. -
Merlinho wrote:
RedPanda wrote:
Merlinho wrote:
A few years ago, I was very pro-EU, being the keen language speaker and Europhile that I am.
However, having lived in Strasbourg for a year, and witnessed some, shall I say, unprofessional behaviour by our elected and unelected representatives, my opinions changed slightly.
Not sure if Otto will know what I'm talking about, but how it's possible to potentially vote on something important at 9am when you're dancing on the bar of Les Aviateurs at 5am, I'm not sure!
As nice as the EU parliament building is, the movement of all MEPs every week in 4 from Brussels to Strasbourg is in my opinion, just an unnecessary moneysink, with a large risk of expense claim abuse as well.
Human nature eh? I figure a good proportion of national MP's would also indulge in a bit of illicit(?) nookie. In fact, Joe Public is free to drop down a strip club and turn up late to work.
It amazes me we demand out esteemed (ha!) leaders be squeaky white and most of the population plays by 'anything goes'. Well, round my way anyway.
I'd be happier if our MP's in this country spent more time indulging the wank and less time fucking up our freedoms and bombing other countries for kicks.
/rant rant drunken twat back from pub etc. my future is a cabbie job
(sorry mate, i am ranting here, i mean i'm assuming all sorts about that bar lolol)
I think you're overassuming. To be fair, I'm probably overassuming as well, but I know that MEPs get a fairly big budget for their trips to Strasbourg, and I'm not really sure how monitored the expenditure is. Also, I knew European Commission representatives who got a great budget for going to places like Latvia and basically saw it as a moneyspinner, because it was impossible to spend that much money there.
But really, when I'm in work the next day, I'm not out until 5am, that would be unprofessional, and I actually wouldn't be able to do my job. And I'm not a elected representative of my constituency. When you elect for someone, is it unreasonable to expect them to be sober when they're using the power you've bestowed on them? Maybe we should ask Charles Kennedy's constituency.
True enough. All a matter of scale I guess.
Course, I can't say I wouldn't abuse too much money or too much power, though I'd try to do good stuff and not wank it away.
But if you land a job with a load of cash, sometimes its hard to do that job diligently and refrain from burning the candle at both ends. Especially when the job doesn't leave you much spare time.
I guess the solution might be for badly paid politicians so they really want to do the job and aren't after it for the money? Although the job goes with power and therefore companies and organisations will always be willing to pay for access to power. -
Merlinho wrote:
Well firstly there's a massive difference between the Parliament, especially MEPs, and the officials who work for the institutions especially the Commission.
A few years ago, I was very pro-EU, being the keen language speaker and Europhile that I am.
However, having lived in Strasbourg for a year, and witnessed some, shall I say, unprofessional behaviour by our elected and unelected representatives, my opinions changed slightly.
Not sure if Otto will know what I'm talking about, but how it's possible to potentially vote on something important at 9am when you're dancing on the bar of Les Aviateurs at 5am, I'm not sure!
As nice as the EU parliament building is, the movement of all MEPs every week in 4 from Brussels to Strasbourg is in my opinion, just an unnecessary moneysink, with a large risk of expense claim abuse as well.
Also, there are radical variations in the professionalism of MEPs - some are incredibly devoted to their constituents and their work, others are frankly a bunch of unfunny comedians. Sadly that's what you get in a democracy.
I have to say that as a committed European and Europhile who firmly believes in the necessity of the EU, I don't see that as being the same thing at all as loving the status quo, or the current institutional framework. There are loads and loads of things that could be done to make things work better.
But that's true of government at most levels, surely? I mean, presumably most of us believe that having a democratic system of government at national and regional level is probably on balance a good thing, while most of us at the same time probably hate the guts of our local MP or town councillors. You can hate the politics of the people in power without rejecting the whole system.
In short, just because you're not happy with (say) current EU policy on chemicals, or the way in which the Parliament is elected, doesn't mean you have to hate the EU. -
ico 230 posts
Seen 11 hours ago
Registered 18 years agoOtto where are you living, Luxembourg, Brussels or Strasbourg? -
I'm Brussels based but right now I'm living outside the EU. -
alexc7496 1,800 posts
Seen 5 years ago
Registered 15 years agoBeing a typical Englishman I would love us to pull out of the EU, however I do understand that there are benefits (Not much for us) so I think the current state is okay. I wouldn't want us to go any further into it.
Just can't stand being told how to live my life by Brussels. Piss off! -
Khanivor 44,800 posts
Seen 2 days ago
Registered 20 years agoI'm curious otto, what are your feelings on the mooted North American Union? There seemed to be enough denial from the recent meeting of the leaders of Mexico, Canada and the US to give credence to the idea that they are planning something EU-like, as in more than just a trading bloc. -
Merlinho wrote:
Who? Name names.
Also, I knew European Commission representatives who got a great budget for going to places like Latvia and basically saw it as a moneyspinner, because it was impossible to spend that much money there.
Obviously we're no different to any other office drone: we will play the system as far as the system lets us in order to make the most of business trips. That's not very much as for the last ten years or so expenditure is incredibly tightly controlled. The way official travel works is that your travel is paid for up front (airfares, train fares) and you have to pay the hotel yourself with a corporate credit card. That money is directly debited from your account two months later, and so you have to make your claim within six weeks of getting back in order to avoid being out of pocket. Unlike the UK Civil Service, for example, there's no flat rate for hotels, you are refunded precisely what it cost, and there's a ceiling for hotel nights which is not very generous. Often's the time I've been on a business trip and had to stay in a crappy hotel when my Member State colleagues have all been living it up at the Ritz.
The one nice thing is that you are given a daily allowance which is supposed to cover things like food, taxis, etc. (You have to declare any free meals and your allowance is reduced accordingly.) The daily allowance is fairly generous though it is calculated on the basis of local costs - so a trip to London for example would get you the daily allowance multiplied by about 1.5, whereas on a trip to Latvia it would be multiplied 0.6 (random numbers, I haven't looked them up, but that's how the system works).
It's pretty fair and it is possible to earn a bit extra if you're travelling as long as you don't go wild and eat at the finest restaurants, but compared to private sector business travel, and many Member State rules, it's far from being excessively generous.
I just think criticisms like that need to be backed up, this is how groundless gossip gets started and it's really not fair. -
Khanivor wrote:
The SPP is nothing like the EU, was never intended to be anything like the EU, and could never be anything like the EU. In this respect the crusties and assorted protesters have got it way wrong.
I'm curious otto, what are your feelings on the mooted North American Union? There seemed to be enough denial from the recent meeting of the leaders of Mexico, Canada and the US to give credence to the idea that they are planning something EU-like, as in more than just a trading bloc.
I don't particularly like the SPP but to see it as anything even remotely resembling a North American Union is just so way off base it's laughable. It's actually kind of pathetic, the three amigos getting together to listen to a bunch of CEOs and talk a bit about regulatory co-operation.
It's way less even than NAFTA and we all know what a joke NAFTA has turned out to be.
You could never have a North American Union along the lines of the EU because the context is so radically different. The EU came about because the states of Europe agreed to pool sovereignty in order to increase their security, and prosperity is really just a welcome side effect. None of the three in North America is ready to give away any sovereignty, and in any case the US is so overwhelmingly massive compared to the other two that a Union would just be a takeover.
So no. -
alexc7496 1,800 posts
Seen 5 years ago
Registered 15 years agoKhanivor wrote:
I'm curious otto, what are your feelings on the mooted North American Union? There seemed to be enough denial from the recent meeting of the leaders of Mexico, Canada and the US to give credence to the idea that they are planning something EU-like, as in more than just a trading bloc.
Mexico would love that. If they do open the borders I think US would struggle. They already do now with the amount of illegal imigrants let alone legal ones. -
Shinji 5,902 posts
Seen 8 years ago
Registered 20 years agoalexc7496 wrote:
Being a typical Englishman I would love us to pull out of the EU, however I do understand that there are benefits (Not much for us) so I think the current state is okay. I wouldn't want us to go any further into it.
Just can't stand being told how to live my life by Brussels. Piss off!
Sadly I suspect that this is more typical of the attitude of the average English person than the mostly balanced comments elsewhere on this thread.
An at a guess, Alex, I'd say that if push comes to shove you don't actually know very much about the EU or what it has done for you, right? Sigh. -
alexc7496 wrote:
Well done, that earns idiotic post of the thread, congratulations and here is your free subscription to the Daily Mail.
Just can't stand being told how to live my life by Brussels. Piss off!
Moron.
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